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Parliament met at 10.54 a.m. in Parliament House, Kampala.
PRAYERS
(The Deputy Speaker, Ms Rebecca Kadaga, in the Chair.)
The House was called to order.
COMMUNICATION FROM THE CHAIR
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Honourable members, I would like to welcome you to this today's sitting and to appeal to you again - but maybe I am appealing to the converted. I appeal to all members to be here because we are required to take a vote on a number of reports. So, now that you are here, please ask your friends to come. Our intention is to go on recess tomorrow at lunchtime and there should be no extensions for whatever reason.
(A) MOTION THAT PARLIAMENT RESOLVE ITSELF INTO A COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY FOR THE
CONSIDERATION AND APPROVAL OF:
i) The Revised Revenue and Expenditure Estimates for the Fiscal Year 2004/2005 and
ii) The Budgetary Proposals for the Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure for the Fiscal Year 2005/2006.
(B) PRESENTATION, CONSIDERATION AND ADOPTION OF SESSIONAL COMMITTEE REPORTS
i) Committee on Agriculture, Animal Industry and Fisheries
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Honourable members, we received the report yesterday. It is now open for debate.
When we were debating the report of the Committee on Natural Resources, hon. Ekanya informed this House that Lake Victoria was about to catch fire, and we required him to produce evidence. He said he had a report form Dr Orach Mezza, and we asked him to lay it on the Table, so that we can look at it. Hon. Ekanya, please lay it on the Table.
10.55
MR GEOFFREY EKANYA (Tororo County, Tororo): Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. I lay on the Table a document on Lake Victoria Management Programme. It is a working report on the lesson learnt on the secretariat institutional framework by a national consultant Salim Mbashu. This report was released on 10 July 2005, it gives details of the status and the threat the lake is facing. I beg to lay.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: That report is committed to our Committee on Natural Resources to study. They will then report to the House.
Honourable members, you can now debate the report of the Committee on Agriculture.
10.56
MS JACQUELINE KYATUHEIRE (Woman Representative, Kanungu): Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. I have some concerns about the report. Page 6 reads "Promotion of utilisation of water for increased and sustainable commercial agricultural production through effective irrigation schemes." I would like to know how this is going to be implemented. I recently visited Bukanga and Isingiro constituencies and found out that despite the fact that it is a very dry area, they have underground water, which enhances production. I would like to know whether the ministry has plans of extending such programmes to other areas, which are also very dry.
The other issue is about livestock. Kanungu is one of the districts that are traditional goat keepers. Madam Speaker, it is surprising that when goats are brought for improving the breeds, they are taken to areas that have in the past already benefited from other programmes. I would like to know the criteria that the ministry uses in giving out these goats.
Some time in 2002, Uganda Tea Growers' Corporation Bill was presented to this House. It was later on withdrawn. As you all know, Kanungu is one of the tea growing areas, in fact, we have the best tea in the country. Why has the ministry taken such a long time to bring back this Bill? The tea growers are highly affected, for without this Bill, they are at a disadvantage.
Madam Speaker, I am also concerned about wheat growing. I would like to know the progress of this programme because even the President has been talking about it for sometime now. We all know the benefits we would get from this. However, we have no idea how far this programme has gone. I am sure some members would be interested in introducing this to their people. I thank you.
11.00
REV. DR KEFA SSEMPANGI (Ntenjeru County South, Kayunga): Madam Speaker, I thank the committee for the good report. I had almost given up on the issue of getting an agro processing machine for my voters in Kangulumira. We grew many pineapples and we are stuck because when the season is high, the pineapples rot and the farmers lose heart. It is only recently that we started getting some buyers from Kenya. However, the prices are very low. One time, we got buyers from South Africa, and the South African High Commissioner really got interested in our pineapples.
The vehicles, which bring stuff to Shoprite, go back to South Africa empty. Therefore, the commissioner encouraged our farmers to grow more pineapples. However, when we could not sign the agreement because we said we would supply pineapples only during their season. Yet, South Africa needs pineapples throughout the year, not depending on the sun shines or rain falls.
Consequently, we were to get a supplier from South Africa to supply water pumps, but we could not raise the required funds. At the same time, we have a problem with old laws, which were signed many years ago. We cannot draw water from River Nile and I do not know when this international, or whatever you call it, will be withdrawn. Even though South Africa brought pipes to Kangulumira, we would not draw water from the river because it is prohibited. I do not know when this will ever be withdrawn. Now, all my farmers are discouraged. However, the point I want to raise, and which I have raised many times in the past is when we shall have machines so that we can process these pineapples. Our farmers need to be facilitated.
Madam Speaker, I am very happy that NAADS is now encouraging farmers to grow aleo vera, and has even gone ahead to supply seedlings in some areas. Unfortunately, according to this report, Kayuga is not among the districts to receive assistance from NAADS. When will Kayunga be included on that list so that my people of Kangulumira may also benefit from this programme? However, at the same time, aloe vera growers also need a machine because they are in the process of harvesting. If the machine is not brought in time, I suspect that our farmers will soon be given the usual peanut prices.
When the plant was introduced, we were told that it was to help our people fight poverty. The price was very promising. We started at almost shs 3,000 per leaf, but now, we at shs 1,500. Yet, this plant is on high demand in countries abroad, where it is used for lotions, medicine and many other products. Government should find a way of helping our farmers. It is unfortunate that what we read here is only about traditional crops. You should remember that not everybody can afford coffee, whose prices have even gone down. The committee should be encouraged further to appeal to Government to put emphasis on developing a national irrigation policy. Without this, our farmers will continue to be cheated. Thank you, Madam Speaker.
11.06
MS ALICE ALASO ASIANUT (Woman Representative, Soroti): Thank you, Madam Speaker. I thank the committee for their report. I am aware that the ministry finally gave out the National Fisheries Policy. Most of the fishermen at the landing sites now have copies of this policy. One thing that clearly comes out is the need to properly manage the fisheries sector. I recently heard on radio that we plan to double our fish exports to the European Union.
The problem that is coming with this development was the formation of the Beach Management Units on the shores of Lake Kyoga and the landing sites of Mulondo, Kagwara, Bugondo, Galama, Pingire and Kateta. All the fishermen in these units were never trained. We have a whole lot of fishermen who seemingly do not know what to do. I fear that in our zeal to implement the National Fisheries Policy, the ordinary fishermen without training or even organisation will be thrown out of the water or fishing business. Already, many of them are no longer fishing and yet their livelihood depends on this. The honourable minister should assure the fishermen and Beach Management Units that they will be trained in order to cope with the demands of the National Fisheries Policy.
Madam Speaker, when we discussed the report of the Committee on Trade and Industry, the minister said that they had participated in the formulation of the three-year strategic plan for food security in this country. I requested to know the progress of the formulation of this strategic plan. I was referred to today when the Ministry of Agriculture would be presenting. I consider this very important, given the fact that almost every year this country is hit by famine. Therefore, it would help us to know the progress for disseminating this three-year strategic food security plan.
Finally, I want to echo the obvious. Yesterday, we passed a loan for controlling tsetse fly infection in this region. Madam Speaker, Soroti district is the most infested area. The situation is worse for Kaberamaido. I am comforted by the fact that Parliament authorised the loan yesterday. However, by the time that money comes, I am afraid that the situation will have got out of hand. I would like the honourable Minister of Agriculture to tell me the latest she has done.
The last time we discussed the tsetse fly problem in this House, we were told about a multi-sectoral approach. Another time, we complained that there was a problem of capacity for the entomology department at the districts. There was also inadequate funding. The village communities, because of ignorance, removed some of the tsetse traps that that had been placed in the bushes. They claimed that they were using them to make mosquito. Given that type of scenario, what is the minister doing to save those areas that have been hit, especially Soroti and Kaberamaido? I thank you.
11.12
MR AGGREY AWORI (Samia-Bugwe County North, Busia): Thank you, Madam Speaker. I congratulate the Government for the first time - [Honourable members: "First time?"] yes, for the first time, they have realised that subsistence agriculture still has a place in our economy. They have increased the percentage of the budget from 1.2 to nearly four percent. I congratulate you Rt Hon. Prime Minister. (Applause)
In the same way, I call upon the Government to realise that the four per cent given to Agriculture is not properly targeted. We need to transform our agriculture from subsistence to sustainable or commercial agriculture. I keep hearing slogans from NRM Secretariat boona bagagawale. I do not know whether it is Latin or Greek, but with the little Luganda that I know, that statement means that all should get rich. If this is a Government policy, you still have a lot to do.
You are aware that 78 percent of the population in Uganda is involved in the agriculture industry. In other countries, the so-called development partners pay a lot of attention to their farmers, no matter how small the percentage is. In the US, every farmer is subsidised by the state. In this country, we penalise them instead of giving them support. They are all the time charged un necessary taxes. In the U, they subsidise them in a way of relief on the inputs and they are not charged unnecessary taxes.
A farmer gets his own personal income relief because he is in agriculture. Yet, in this country, we have no provision in the tax system that for instance, any farmer who makes more than shs 150,000 per month from his farm be entitled to a certain percentage of relief. We know that the threshold for income tax is about shs 130,000 per month. For a farmer who works so hard and makes an average of about shs 150,000, this person should not be taxed like a wage earner. That is the only way we can recognise the role of the farmer. That is the only way the farmer will be transformed from pure subsistence to sustainable or commercial agriculture.
Madam Speaker, agriculture is doomed unless it is commercialised. We are not going to compete with the outside world until we go commercial. For instance, under open trade, they are going to dump their wheat, maize and tomatoes here and there. Where will our farmers go, since we do not have industries to absorb them? They are moving from the rural to the urban centres looking for jobs. The only jobs you can find in urban centres are industries, which are not here in Uganda.
Madam Speaker, it is sad that we are instead subsidising foreign investors indirectly. They come here with business plans in their briefcases and laptops, walk to State House, to Bank of Uganda and eventually walk out with US$6 million from our tax payers' money. We have to realise that we need to subsidise our farmers. I talked about food processing to add value, which we have not made a serious effort to achieve, with the exception of the textile for cotton.
However, even with that, we have left these poor cotton farmers to the mercy of international markets. We have to come up with a minimum price for our farmers and should any situation arise whereby the market forces are bringing the prices below our production cost, we have to step in as a Government. Why do we go out of our way to take these people's money and subsidise people who are working in air-conditioned rooms?
I have talked about value addition. It is very important for us to continue exporting raw materials like coffee and pineapples. I heard hon. Ssempangi say we send out pineapples to South Africa. Why should we send raw pineapples to South Africa who will in turn process them, put them in tins and bring them to this other shopping centre, how do you call it, the one near Lugogo? [Hon. Babu: "Shoprite"] Yes, Shoprite. My good friend from Mukono will then go to Shoprite and buy his pineapples, which he sold to South Africa. I do not think that is logical. It is time we said, "Look! Enough is enough, we would like to get quick money, but sending our foodstuffs raw, unprocessed without value added, no."
Even if we were to do it, Madam Speaker, the method of exporting is very expensive for the farmer. The airfreight charges exceed the value of the foodstuffs we export per kilogram. Why is the cost of freight so expensive? Again, it goes back to the Government, which has put the tax on aviation fuel very high. Why do we make such mistakes, and yet we know we are a landlocked country?
It takes us more than 600 kilometres to reach the nearest port in Mombasa. Yet, we do not want to use aviation as a way of export. We frustrate aviation by putting taxes on fuel, spare parts, landing fees, metrological fees and very many others. I think some of this information should be given free so that Entebbe can be a centre for Eastern Africa, to enable more aircraft come in and hence avail more air space to export our goods.
Madam Speaker, the most popular industry right now in terms of export is fish industry. Again, we are doing it stupidly because we are so eager to earn money. We have fish in my constituency. My district has a factory that processes fish. I regret that my aunt and grandmother cannot afford fish anymore because the factory is buying up everything at a very high place. The fish, which we used to get at Shs 1,000 is now at shs 4,000. I grew up feeding on fish, and in fact, the first time I ate meat was in boarding school. I was 18 I remember. I had never experienced the misfortune of eating meat.
MRS RAINER: Thank you hon. Awori for giving way. I would like to inform hon. Awori that fish is very scarce these days. In fact, people are buying Mugongo wazi, which refers to the head and bones that remain after fillet has been peeled off. That is what the Ugandan is offered to eat. It is a shame! You see vehicles driving around the trading centres selling Mugongo wazi. What is the Government doing to multiply the fish in this country, to enable the citizen have something to eat?
MR AWORI: Thank you hon. Rainer. We are tired of Mugongo wazi. Every time I go home, instead of being served with fish, I am just given bones floating on water with a little bit of salt.
MR TIM LWANGA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I am a fisherman. We fishermen always want to earn foreign currency and we can forego anything for that. Therefore, we sell the best part and get as much money as we can. By the way, the fish heads are wonderful because of the brain. That is why people from Ssese islands are very brilliant. There is nothing wrong with eating the head. Thank you very much.
MR AVITUS TIMBARIBASA: Thank you very much hon. Awori for giving way. This Mugongo wazi is now being exported to the Republic of Congo. It is earning a lot of foreign exchange for this country.
MR AWORI: Madam Speaker, I would have liked to thank my colleagues for talking about Mugongo wazi, but out of sympathy. They are out of touch with reality and are only committed to foreign exchange. We are suffering a nutrition problem here; in fact, we are even taking loans from abroad to subsidise children who are suffering from Kwashiorkor. Here you are, proud of exporting fish, which the children are entitled to. You have no shame of coming here to seek parliament's approval for loans. What kind of economic system are you encouraging? Therefore, my honourable colleagues, I do not take your advice at all. Mugongo wazi is not in my interest, madam Speaker. There is an alternative that I would like to recommend to the Minister of Agriculture; fish weighing less than one kilogram should be left to the local market. Exports should as a matter of policy be confined to fish weighing more than two kilograms, so that we can now also access some little fish. More money should also be invested in fish bonds, so that we can access some fish locally.
Madam Speaker, my other concern is on milk. We have for a long time worked hard to increase the production of milk in this country. Unfortunately, next week this Government will come to seek our approval for a loan to give a certain foreign investor who will take over our Dairy Corporation. What kind of logic is this? The farmers in this country are prepared to run the Dairy Corporation efficiently and profitably.
Instead, my senior colleague in State House invited somebody from Thailand to take over the Dairy Corporation Processing Plant. We are aware that this person has no experience for we know his background. We found out that this person cannot perform, and yet, he wanted to take our dairy industry for $1. When we said, "No", he turned around and formed another company. He claimed he would manage it for us as long as we paid him $3 million.
Surely, why pay somebody to manage it for us when the primary producers of the product want to run it themselves? They gave us a proposal and a feasibility study, which we felt was okay. Now, you are saying we should borrow this money. I do not understand this kind of thing.
Lastly, Madam Speaker, I want to emphasise that sometimes we are misguided. Many of our people grow maize, especially in my area and around Busoga. We have never encouraged these growers to export their product, until two Banzungu and the daughter of the President formed a company. They were given a facility in Nakawa, worth $6 million. The maize farmer could not get such a subside, yet company, Uganda Grain Traders are doing well. This is corruption of the highest order. We want transparency in whatever we do.
Madam Speaker, I had some more concerns, but there is no time. The issue of coffee is another embarrassing incident. Why should Uganda take its coffee to Bukoba for processing? Bukoba is just across the lake and yet we can afford this plant here in Bugolobi. Why do we take it to Bukoba and then buy it back in tins? What is going on this country?
11.30
CAPT FRANCIS BABU (Central Division, Kampala): Madam Speaker, thank you very much. Honourable members, I wanted to inform hon. Awori but I did not want to disturb his submission.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Are you giving information or contributing?
CAPT. BABU: On aviation, because he talked about aviation and I want to tell him that there is a report about East Africa on the cost of transporting agricultural produces abroad. It has come out clearly that our price is competitive, in fact is lower than some of the other airports.
Secondly, the fuel price is not being escalated by taxes. It is rather the cost of a barrel in the gulf and in the Mediterranean. The cost of a barrel of oil today, as my colleague may, has escalated up to the level of $67. Therefore, the fuel price across the board has been increasing, including aviation fuel jet A-1.
The only way we can do this is either to intervene as Government and subsidise aviation, which is not possible since we liberalised. The study is available and I can ask the Civil Aviation Authority to bring you that study, so that you can look at the cost of aviation for agricultural produce.
I should also refer -(Interruption)
MR AWORI: Point of clarification. Thank you for yielding the Floor. (Interruption)
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: I have not quite understood, are you giving information to hon. Awori or contributing?
MR AWORI: No, it is his own contribution. Madam Speaker, I my honourable colleague in charge of Transport and Communications should tell me why fuel in Kigali, Eldoret and Juba is cheaper than Kampala. Yet, the cost of the barrel is about the same. The only reason is taxation. The distance from Mombassa to Kigali is definitely longer than that from Mombasa to Kampala!
CAPT BABU: I thank hon. Awori. Kenya has a refinery, and a pipeline. Therefore, they can subsidise their fuel. The Republic of Rwanda subsidises fuel to the extent that the big companies in Kigali are now closing down. They can no longer get paid on time and therefore we, who have liberalised, even without fuel pipelines here, we have fuel available at the pump and at Entebbe. These are the reasons. The economy must be understood especially when you liberalise and embrace the market economy.
Madam Speaker, I am concerned about mugongo wazi, which has been included in recommendations on page 12 of the report. I like the good report but I find this rather isolated. It is not part of the National Fisheries Policy. The way they harvest fish in our lakes is clearly spelt out.
It is very unfortunate that this particular case has been magnified. I know it occurs in this country but it is not as bad as members are saying. It is in a certain sector and if you segmented the marketing of fishing in this country, you will find only a small percentage has this problem. Therefore, Government cannot encourage it, because of our export policies. To make sure that our population is feeding on mugongo wazi only it is -(Interruption)
MR BERNARD MULENGANI: Thank you very much for giving way. The concerns that we are raising on mugongo wazi is not that it is everywhere in this country. The issue is the affordability. The locals can only afford mugongo wazi, not the whole fish. Thank you.
MR NDIWA KAPKWOMU KAPKOMU: Madam Speaker, hon. Babu should know that what we have in the report is what the committee has also gone to research. Two weeks ago, we were in hon. Awori's area, where there is a fish factory. Next to it is a big management unit, which deals only with smoked fish. They have no access to fresh fish for they receive smoked fish from the islands. In the neighbourhood, there is a market, which is prominent for drying mugongo wazi. They export this to DRC. Therefore, we are concerned. The report is not faulty, we should accept that fact. Thank you.
CAPT BABU: Madam Speaker, I am not saying the report is faulty. I am not saying that there are no possibilities that certain segments of our society get access to Mugongo wazi. I am saying that Government has a tendency of promoting export commodities at the expense of food security. That is not what our food policy says. What do our Government food and fish policy say? You cannot isolate this case and say it is across the board. I want it clearly stated that as per our food and fish policy, there is unfortunately this kind of incident. However, if you leave it this way and yet, this is a report Parliament is about to pass, I find it a problem.
This is why I told you that your report should have clearly explained the food and nutrition policy and the fish policy. I find the recommendations contradictory and wonder whether we should not sit down and adjust this report accordingly. Thank you very much.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: But hon. Babu, I would like to know where the food policy and nutritional policy are. I have not seen them.
CAPT BABU: Madam Speaker, they are in the report. If you allow me to read page 4, I think it is (ii), "Development of supportive policies, regulations, standards and enforcement of mechanism for smooth functioning of agriculture and agro industrial sector. The following sector policies were formulated in sub sector areas of crop, livestock and fisheries."
Bullet number 2 reads: "National Fisheries Policy." This National Fisheries Policy spells out the structure of our policy and therefore it cannot be a policy of this Government to exclude its citizens from this policy. I would find this extremely unfortunate, especially knowing that I sit on a very vibrant Cabinet. I therefore request the chairman of this committee to be kind enough as to harmonise the two. You should tell us what the fish policy says, what is in the market and how we can rectify it.
Madam Speaker, if the argument is about mugongo wazi, there are companies here that buy those bones make glue. There are also people who buy the rest of the other parts of the fish. If there are such people who buy mugongo wazi for consumption, we should find out why.
MS ALICE ALASO: Madam Speaker, the honourable minister should know that when we talk about mugongo wazi, we are not only referring to Busia. It also happens on the shores of lake Kyoga, where I come from. To be honest, this is what the local people buy to boil and eat. It is not for making glue. Who makes glue in Soroti, where we do not have a glue industry? They do not even have it in their homes. These bones are boiled and the soup is eaten.
The honourable Minister of Ethics said there nothing wrong with that. Madam Speake I expect minister, as a fisherman, to know that we would also like to eat fish fillet and the other good parts of the fish, not just the soup. When the committee says that Government has a tendency, it is true. We have these policies, in fact, a few minutes ago I referred to the National Fisheries Policy.
If you went to the landing sites in lake Kyoga, you would even find the Beach Management Unit people walking around with copies. However, the problem we are emphasising here is that there is not much being done to help the people on the ground develop their capacity. The policy is useless if it cannot do that for them. It is a very good document and if we equipped our people, they would compete favourably. They would become powerful and professional fishermen, capable of sustaining themselves.
However, these are untrained people, who do not have any money to access good fishing ground, aprons or even gloves. Some of them are aging and will soon get out of this business. That is why the committee is saying that there is a tendency to promote export at the expense of our people. We should start considering the welfare and the nutritional needs of this country. It is not the first time that we get to this House to say that the milk processing areas have the highest levels of malnutrition.
MR EKANYA: Madam Speaker, I think this Parliament should rise up to the global challenge. Surely, we cannot discuss the challenges that each sector is facing globally within these few minutes. I have been reading on this sector and found out that fish is heading for extinction globally. Lake Victoria for example, some years ago had over 3000 fish species. However, as we speak, we are talking of three or four species. As you stated, the fish policy should be seen on the ground.
I stated it here last week, the fish that is caught and processed for exportation does not weigh the same as it did five years ago. The fish matures at very early stage these days. Therefore, what Government needs to do instead of being concerned about what the committee has stated, is to invest in the fish sector and also implement the fish policy.
Otherwise we are talking here, but in ten years' time, Madam Speaker, I want to testify here, we shall have no fish on the lake. The document on East African community, states that the Uganda, Kenya and Tanzania Governments are violating the fish policy that had been agreed upon, concerning fish processing and licensing. Therefore, Madam Speaker, the Government should put more money in the sector. Thank you.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Honourable members, we should leave this matter. However, I think there should be a meeting point for the fish policy and nutrition policy. I hope the committee will bear that in mind as they respond to these concerns.
11.44
THE CHAIRPERSON, SESSIONAL COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE, ANIMAL INDUSTRY AND FISHERIES (Mr John Odit): Madam Speaker, I think it will not be in order for me to interrupt reactions and responses to our report. However, the minister seems to insist that we should withdraw this recommendation, which is a statement of fact. We visited Kenya and Tanzania and spent eight days comparing the performance of this industry.
When we came back, we visited Busia and last year we had visited Bukakata site and Rakai district. We found out that these shared experiences as far as mugongo wazi is concerned. It is only the head and skeleton that are left for the local people to eat. We wanted the fisheries policy, which has been formulated but not operationalised to be felt on the ground. The people of Uganda will then know what Government is promoting for them and for export.
The story might be even be worse because apart from the glue we are talking about, which comes from the skeletons, we have discovered that even the fish scales are used for manufacturing spare nails. The lungs of fish are exported to Tanzania, where they are used in the production of stitching material, which is used in theatres. It is only good that our country has not heard about it, but even the lungs would have gone.
We need appropriate action in order to protect the interests of the nation. Therefore, the minister should know that this responsible committee has visited the affected areas. Defending the unfortunate situation will not give us any solution.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Honourable minister, please wind up.
CAPT. BABU: Madam Speaker, I am far from that. I am not defending Government on this. All I am saying is that we should harmonise the two policies. I represent a constituency here in Kampala and I know we have different feeding habits. Hon. Awori does not fall in that sector, for he actually feeds in this canteen up here and sometimes Sheraton.
I agree that there are people who cannot afford to feed well. That is a different topic altogether. If we are going to talk about those who have and those who do not then we are talking about the whole country. We should harmonise liberalisation and poverty before we come out with any facts. All I am saying is that the way it was stated in the recommendations gives an impression that the whole country is feeding on heads and bones. I disagree with this. There is a certain sector, which, because of our problems and those of the country, resorted to feeding on certain things, including bones and things like that.
Madam Speaker, I would like to end by thanking the chairperson, who has been very candid. He has told us that the whole fish, if well looked at, is a raw material for many products around the world. It would be very important, therefore, for us to give the right impression - I am not saying that this is not true. All I am saying is that we should harmonise it with our policy, for it is not Government's policy, which causes Ugandans to eat heads and bones. Thank you very much.
11.49
MR GEOFFREY EKANYA (Tororo County, Tororo): Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. I thank the committee for their report and Government for giving the sector more money this financial year. Agriculture employs over 80 per cent of Ugandans and as Government is aware, low production always results in destabilisation of the macro-economic policy. We would expect Government to consider investing more money in this sector by raising it to about 20 per cent. The World and African Policy Research Institutions recommend this percentage.
Madam Speaker, I wish to recognise that Government is moving to support the farmers. Whoever would like to inform Government should know that most of the findings of the scientific studies on new crops are not integrated in our local environment.
For example, the type of cassava that our farmers used to plant ten years ago could be harvested through out the year. The species being planted these days are just uprooted once and with the coming of cassava mosaic, we missed all these. Therefore, I would like to appeal to Government to put more money in research, to ensure that new breeds that come are compatible to the conditions of our farmers. Our local farmers plant cassava and at harvest time just uproot it all.
We have a problem of climatic changes for the rain pattern in this country is no longer predictable. In my village, farmers told me two weeks ago that they plant cassava, even thrice, but it does not grow because of lack of rain. There is also soil infertility, which is not conducive for the growth of cassava. Environmental degradation has also forced our farmers to go to the swamps to grow rice. Now, the swamps have dried up and they have nowhere to go. There has been talk of upland rice, but where is this upland rice? Is it only distributed in areas with strong political support?
This contravenes Government policy, because wetlands are not supposed to be used for farming.
In addition to the problems resulting from use of wetlands, because of high cost of power tariff in urban centres, 90 per cent of urban inhabitants rely on charcoal for energy. Our farmers cut down most of the trees to burn charcoal because there is demand. They need the money, which they get from charcoal.
Madam Speaker, I appeal to Government to enforce the protection of environment very seriously. It is also sad to note that in Eastern Uganda, God bless the spirit of Kakungulu the late, who promoted the planting of Mvule Trees. This Government licensed a Chinese investor to cut most of these Mvule trees, which take about 50 to 100 years to mature. No wonder the rain pattern has changed and our farmers can no longer grow vegetable they used to grow. Therefore, what is happening?
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Ekanya, where is this Chinese investor and what is he actually doing?
MR EKANYA: Madam Speaker, the Chinese investor is based in Mbale. If you go to Bunyole, Bugisu and some parts of Busoga, you will find him. The Minister of Forestry and the President are aware. We have raised this issue with Government many times. The ministry said that they licensed the investor to cut the very mature mvule trees that would otherwise be wasted if they fell and got rotten. However, this is not what has happened. Government should really -(Interruption)
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: But, what harm were these trees causing? Does it require an investor to cut trees in Uganda?
MR EKANYA: That is the challenge. Madam Speaker, this is a very serious issue. In Tororo, we face a big problem and I have communicated to the Minister of Animal Industry about tsetse fly control. The Government of Uganda is trying to do its best, but our Kenyan partner seems not to be matching the level that is expected. They keep crossing the border and this has affected the animal industry in Tororo.
Besides the above, most of the animals in this region are not good. The Government talked of restocking but this was never done. Sometime back, I was told that the Prime Minister, had ordered suspension of this programme because of poor management. Some of the districts were buying very immature animals, the size of a goat and equating it to a full cow.
I would like to know from Government how far they have gone in restructuring this programme. There was also NAADS programme, in which piglets in the market here are procured at shs 40,000 each and yet, at the districts, they were supplied shs 70,000 each. What is Government policy in the control and management of this programme?
Finally, Madam Speaker, the Government suspended graduated tax and promised the districts - according to the study, districts were collecting shs 80 billion annually. The Government promised that they would compensate these districts to a tune of shs 30 billion. I have a document here, which was addressed to you by Uganda Local Government Association.
I am a member of the Committee on Local Government and Public Service. This money, which Government promised districts, is not in the budget, yet, it is supposed to be salaries. This leaves the districts and the sub-county Governments with no money for counterpart funding. I wonder how programmes like NAADS and PMA with all this restocking will continue to operate.
I am reliably informed that the international community that fund this programme has given Government up to October to release money to the sub-counties and districts. Surely, we need to get serious before we pass this budget. There should be money in the budget to compensate for the suspension of graduated tax, to ensure that programmes continue to be implemented.
Madam Speaker, how ready is Government to face the standard of WTO as regards the rules of origin, residual rules and all the global trade rules? We are talking here, Government will say we are working as usual, but we cannot export anything because we are not ready to conform to international standards that are imposed on us by the international community. I thank you very much.
12.00
MRS RAINER KAFIRE (Kibuku County, Pallisa): Thank you, Madam Speaker. I will be brief for I have finished with mugongo wazi. On page 34 of the Policy Statement of this year, there were tractors that were purchased by Government for cotton farmers. Pallisa is one of the districts that produce cotton. In fact, it is the highest producer. However, I have never seen a tractor helping a farmer. Therefore, I would like the Minister of Agriculture to let me know where these tractors are. How are they distributed, if they were distributed at all? When will Kibuku County will get one for her farmers?
Secondly, we passed a resolution requiring the Minister of Agriculture to bring to this House a Bill within two months of that time, for the liberalisation of cotton. Up to totay, it has never been brought here. The minister is either too busy or she does not bother about the resolutions passed by this Parliament. May I know as to when that Bill will be brought to this House? Thank you.
12.05
MR JAMES KUBEKETERYA (Bunya County East, Mayuge): Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. I would like the minister my few question. On page 7 in the fish sub-sector, the committee says that Kantey and Templer consultants have finalised the feasibility study for the landing sites and they are ready for construction. I would like the minister to tell us how many these landing sites are. Are they the ones for which we borrowed a loan in 2001 and have not been constructed? We should know whether the loan has now started bearing fruits.
My second concern is about fisheries, especially in far as the destruction of small boats is concerned. I have heard reports from my area that there is a standard size but the fishmongers now complain that they could not afford the required timber for that size. Are we going to have these fishermen assisted in as far as this is concerned?
Mayuge district has never benefited from NAADS. When are we likely to have all the districts on board?
Madam Speaker, my last concern is about zoning. I would like the minister to give us a clear position and a modus operandi of how the zoning system will work. Are we going to use the District Agricultural Officers, who have really been redundant? Or is there something concrete to ensure the effectiveness of the zoning system? Thank you.
12.10
MR IGNATIUS BESISIRA (Buyaga County, Kibaale): Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. I would like to thank the committee for this very good report and ministry for the work it has done in these past years. However, they have had a few shortcomings. My concern is on the following recommendation of the committee on page 11: "That the Plan for Modernisation of Agriculture (PMA) should be updated to address issues specific to the agricultural sector and to contain clear quantitative targets and success indicators." This is where my concern is. There have ever been many programmes in this country. What is there for Ministry of Agriculture to show as a success?
For example for the case of UPE, we see the teacher/pupil or the textbook/pupil ratio improving. If there is an intervention in Health, we see the mortality rate improving, but what is there to show that after all these interventions, this is what has improved? We are wondering as to whether the intervention or the approaches are right. Is it the approaches, which are wrong? I have not seen more cows in my village in Buyaga. I have not seen improved cows; the goats are as poor as they wee when my grandmother gave me a small one. Therefore, what is being done? I think there should be some specific approach to ensure that there is something tangible. (Interruption)
MR NANDALA MAFABI: Thank you very much for the good statement. On behalf of the Ministry of Agriculture, I have looked around and I do not even see an investment plan. They have no way of computing inputs against outputs. I am sure that if the Ministry of Agriculture were scrapped today, Uganda would continue even in a better state than what it is.
12.12
THE MINISTER OF STATE, ANIMAL INDUSTRY (Mrs Mary Mugyenyi): Madam Speaker, I am sorry to interrupt because I know, I am going to respond but I thought I should respond to this particular allegation. The Ministry of Agriculture has an investment plan, which we can bring if you want. Therefore, it is not correct. Sometime back, we did not have it, but today we have an investment plan. I thank you.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Besisira, please conclude.
MR BESISIRA: Madam Speaker, they could have the investment plan, but where have we come from and where are we? We do not know where we are going. Surely, we should not be in the country so many years down the road with all these ministries and projects, which drive many vehicles around and yet, have nothing to show for it.
Madam Speaker, my mother asked me the other day what this thing called NAADS is. She asked, "My son, you are the people who make policies." I asked her, "Don't you see NAADS around?" she told me that she only sees posters, which they bring to the village. Occasionally, they bring one cock at shs 2,000 for improving breeds and then you see a whole pajero coming to see the event. My mother weas concerned that this is how people who have gone to school eat the villagers' money.
Most of the money is spent in capacity building, in service providers and technical people. At the end of the day, it is only about 5 or 6 per cent that reaches the farmer. Government has borrowed so much money for all these years but what do we have to show for it? Capacity building, strategic interventions and all the terminologies that are understood by people who have gone to school. Peasants who are meant to be the beneficiaries rarely get anything from such projects.
A neighbour of mine the other day planted upland rice and put up a very big poster. I was passing by, then I stopped and asked how much it was. He told me shs 150,000. In the neighbourhood, there was a garden of about 10 or 15 metres. It is a demonstration garden. Then you would see pajeros coming to look at the garden. I asked myself what all this is. I appeal to my brothers and sisters in the Ministry of Agriculture to redirect their approach.
MRS AANIMU ANGUPALE: Thank you very much for giving way. I would like to inform you about the activities of NAADS particularly in my district. Currently, they are trying to take photographs of upland rice, which was introduced by the Vice President. They publish them in the papers for NAADS, so that Parliament can give them more money, under the umbrella that they are working. However, in actual sense the project of upland rice is the Vice President's.
Secondly, farmers have been made to produce a certain type of groundnuts. I do not remember how it is called but they are big nuts, which farmers have stocked in stores for the last two years, hoping that they will get market, in vain. They are now very disappointed about the whole programme. I thank you very much.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Please wind up, hon. Besisira.
MR REAGAN OKUMU: Madam Speaker, I would like to inform my good friend that in Gulu we have been growing upland rice without the support of either the Vice president's office or NAADS for the last 30 years. You do not need to get the support from NAADS in order to grow rice.
MS JULIET SEKITOLEKO: Thank you so much, Madam Speaker. It is very unfair to say that NAADS has done completely nothing. I come from Kibaale district where hon. Besisira also comes from. In Kasabya sub county before NAADS was introduced, the gardens there were really in a disaster. The gardens there have improved and I am disappointed with members who claim that NAADS is a complete disaster.
MR BESISIRA: Madam Speaker, I have not said there is nothing done by NAADS. There is something but the amount of money that is put in is not commensurate with what is coming out. There should be something to show that there is an improvement. I still insist that we use the example of UPE, which I am very used to. With UPE, you are able to see classrooms and the books. (Interruption)
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: But, hon. Besisira, are you really suggesting that it is NAADS, which negotiated those agreements, consultants and capacity building? I do not think they did. In fact, they are just implementers of agreements that were made before they came into existence. Therefore, I do not think you should say they are eating money and your mother is making fun of it. It is not right. Please conclude.
MR BESISIRA: Okay, Madam Speaker, that is accepted. However, the point is made. (Laughter) The other issue I raised sometime back is about ministry's strategic intervention. They start on projects and leave them a long the way before anything tangible has been realised. I will give an example of Kibale district. They started on a tea project and gave farmers tea-planting materials. Midway, they abandoned the farmers, the nursery operators and everybody was thrown into a mess. Why did they start if they were not going to complete the project? Therefore, there we are, possibly including me. Therefore, my request is that before we start any strategic intervention, we should really make sure that we complete it.
Finally, I thank the committee for all its recommendations and I pray that the ministry looks at them. These will help the ministry to develop the poor peasant. I thank you.
12.20
THE MINISTER OF STATE, ANIMAL INDUSTRY (Mrs Mary Mugyenyi): Madam Speaker and honourable members, I thank you all for the contributions you have made. I will try as much as possible respond to all the concerns you raised. I thank the Committee on Agriculture for the good report, which we have discussed and agreed on. Therefore, I have no objection to much of what the committee has recommended.
Hon. Kyatuheire's concern was on goat rearing. You said that Kanungu is traditionally known for goat rearing, but you have not received goats. The goats from the Ministry of Agriculture, Animal Industry and Fisheries could be got in different ways. The two main ways are: through the strategic interventions programme. Under that, a number of districts, which are traditionally known as livestock areas were selected and we started with 11 districts. Kanungu was not one of the 11 and that is why that programme did not cover it. The programme did not continue anywhere for it has now translated into zoning and other things. However, if Kanungu is a NAADS district, I am sure if the Kanungu farmers selected goat rearing as one of the enterprises, there is no reason why they will not be given good breeds of goats. The farmers should always be guided to make selections. The Ministry of Agriculture works with NAADS and local governments to do enterprise selection. NAADS normally follows what the local governments and sub county managements select. (Interruption)
MR PHILIP MARY NTACYOTUGIRA: Madam Minister, Kanungu, Kabale and Rukungiri are under NAADS. I would like to know why Kisoro has been left out and yet our farmers have been requesting that NAADS be put in place.
MS MUGYENYI: Honourable member from Kisoro, if Kisoro has not been reached by NAADS, it is probably programmed to be for next financial year. I do not have the clear report here of how NAADS is going to roll out. However, we know that NAADS did not start by covering all the districts in the country.
MR NTACYOTUGIRA: Madam Minister, you see we are in the same region.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Honourable member, let the minister answer. There are 103 sub counties coming on board, if it is not there, you will come to us for clarification. Please check the policy statement.
MR NTACYOTUGIRA: Yes, we are requesting that she helps us to bring NAADS to Kisoro, Madam Speaker.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Honourable member, if it is not among the 103 coming on board, please complain. I want you to check the statement now and tell us whether it is not included.
MS MUGYENYI: Thank you, Madam Speaker. Hon. Kyatuheire's second question was to do with tea in Kanungu. I think the concern was why has the ministry has taken long to bring the policy. In the first place, the UTGC Bill has never been withdrawn. However, MAAIF was requested to work on the National Tea Policy first before the Bill can be handled. As I speak, the tea policy is ready and the bill will there after be brought to Parliament for handling.
Hon. Ssempangi from Kayunga was concerned about the rotting pineapples and the low prices, yet South Africans want pineapples throughout the year. I think the main question here value addition and why we cannot have irrigation using the Nile waters. I will first tell you about the Farm Enhancement and Forest Conservation project. To begin with, there is River Nile Basin project. In fact, discussions are going on even within this country on how to share and manage the waters of the Nile. Burundi, Rwanda, Uganda, Sudan, Egypt and generally the Nile Basin are all involved in these discussions.
I attended the meeting on Tuesday at the opening one of their projects, which is supposed to enhance understanding amongst the members of the Nile Basin.I do not think that there will be any restrictions on Uganda as far as using the water is concerned.
The enhancement project, which is supposed to be ADB funded, as my chairman mentioned yesterday here, once approved it is the main project funding that will see us implement irrigation. We will particularly use the naturally available sources of water including water river Nile to do irrigation.
I, therefore, want to urge the members to pass that loan once it is brought here and the committee on the Economy to bring the loan for consideration as soon as possible so that irrigation can effectively start. That does not mean that we are not doing any irrigation right now, but we are doing it on a small scale. We are doing it in Doho, Kasese and I think in three areas of this country where we are doing pilot irrigation schemes and where they are doing well.
Kayunga wants to benefit from NAADS. The next financial year 2006-2007, NAADS is rolling out, if funds available, to Kayunga district. So it is on plan.
Hon. Alaso is concerned about the fisheries policy. Shs said that if the fishermen are not trained they will soon be thrown out of competition. First of all, we have a fisheries policy and many of our members who come from areas where fishing is a main economic activity for sure have had a look at this policy. There is a time we distributed it through our pigeonholes. The fisheries policy is very clear.
We can only complain about implementation, but we cannot complain about its not being there, or what it is saying because we did long term consultation with different stakeholders. We agreed on what the policy should be, we put it in place and we are all aware of this policy.
Now under the ADB funding project, the fisheries development project. We do have funding and one of the planned activities is sensitisation, capacity building of our fishermen apart from building land sites, 33 of them and so forth.
So, training and building the capacity of fishermen is a capacity for MAAF in our ministry. In this financial 2005-2006, capacity building is one of the planned activities; it is on going and it aims, among other, activities is building the capacity of fishermen including nutrition.
So, honestly, once again, I call for your participation in the implementation of this project. This is a loan that you passed here. It has started and the activities are on going. You need to work with us to ensure that your constituency if it is part of the project area is covered.
Now we have a policy on food security, it is available if you see on page 4 of this report the committee is acknowledging its existence. If members have not had a look at it, it was distributed to the members of this House. This was in collaboration with the Ministry of Health, which definitely as you realise works with us on issues of nutrition.
Now the loan for controlling tsetse flies: Hon. Eresu said it is going to take so long. Soroti is in problems and Kaberamaido is even worse. It is too far to rescue the situation. My answer is no, it is not too far we have approved this loan. So, I want to arrest the fears of hon. Alaso that there are on going projects -(Interruption)
MS ALASO: Madam Speaker, I just want to help the minister with pronunciation of my name. I am Alaso, A l a s o. My colleague who sits on the other side is hon. Eresu just in case people begin to think I am Mrs Eresu. I have to help -(Laughter)
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Honourable minister, I think you have to improve on your knowledge of member's names. Yesterday you renamed somebody else in similar circumstances. So please be careful with your names.
MS RUTAMWEBWA: I think, Madam Speaker, to be on the safe side of things. I will opt not to say certain names so that I do not confuse one name with another. If I use hon. Alice would that not be okay? Thank you so much.
As I was saying this tsetse fly control, the PATIC programme, whose loan you approved yesterday is not the only initiative that we are waiting for in order to deal with issues of sleeping sickness and Nagana. There is PATTEC programme, which you know very well and Soroti is one of the districts where it is operating.
The Ministry of Agriculture, Animal Industry, the Directorate of Animal Resources particularly the department responsible for entomology is doing good work. For example, there are providing traps, colour sides, you may say that is not enough but also the magnitude of infection was really a lot. There is on going work which is to be enhanced by the PATTEC programme.
There is also NARO PEAP, which is also ADB funded which you approved. There is a component of livestock stock health and tsetse fly control is one of them. Kaberamaido and Soroti are in NARO PEAP project because they are in the cattle corridor.
Hon. Awori Aggrey, honestly so much was said I do not know what to pick and what to live out. There is something to do with eating mugongowazi which was a very protracted discussion. I think fishing is like any other industry. It is price is based on demand and supply. Sometimes our people whether they are producing fish or beans or milk they over price what they produce.
The food and nutrition policy: One of its objectives is to sensitize our people on how to save for the family. Otherwise the fishermen are not behaving in a way that is irregular or is unusual.
There are times when families that produce matooke have no matooke because the price is so high. The price of fish right now is quite attractive because of the demand outside and that is why fishermen are selling a lot that they are producing.
But, I agree that we need to sensitise - (Interruption)
MRS SEBAGEREKA: Thank you honourable minister for giving way. I was waiting and expecting to hear something about fish farming. There are so many women and youth groups involved in fish farming -(Interjection)- and old men, I am told.
There are a lot of fishponds, but they do not have ready market and the extension workers are not in the field to help those involved in this business. So, what is the ministry doing about fish farming? Thank you.
MRS MUGYENYI: Thank you so much for that contribution. I consider that to be a contribution because as you know the Ministry of Agriculture, Animal Industry and Fisheries is encouraging fish farming right now.
There are few farming activity; we have just entered it, but it is one of our activities. If you look at the policy statement again you realise that fish farming is one of the activities that the ministry has embarked on and is supporting.
Once again that is supposed to supplement the nutrition levels of our households. Apart from the fish that they catch from the waters they should be able to do their own fish farming so that they can predict food nutrition; they can also produce for the market. But like any beginning activity you could rightly argue that this has not produced results. But I would request that you give it time to produce the results.
The issue of Dairy Corporation and the fact that it has been privatized: This issue has come up so many times and we have explained it.
I would like to urge the members again to give a chance to Government once an investor has been identified and he has the capacity. It is not true that this investor does not have the capacity from the reports that we have seen. I do not think that I am the right person to answer this question.
Anyway as you realize Diary Corporation is not a property of the Ministry of Agriculture anymore; it is under privatization. So it should be Ministry of Finance.
But all I can say is that I am interested in seeing an investor or a management in place that will add value to our milk and produce a market to my milk farmers and I am hoping that this will happen.
There was an allegation about the daughter of the President being given money under grain traders. I do not have any information to that effect. I am not going to respond to that substantively. It has nothing to do with production, it is trade probably.
A question was asked why we have not added value to coffee. There is a provision for a factory which was made under the budget this financial year 2005/2006. It was not this Ministry of Agriculture but under trade. Land has already been secured in Namanve industrial park and Jinja. So, this financial year we in agriculture are hoping that we are going to see our coffee being processed and value is going to be added so that we can get more money from what we produce -(Interruption)
MR OFWONO: Thank you very much honourable Minister for giving way. I want to get a clarification from the Minister. Recently when the President was in Tororo he promised the people a factory -(Interruptions)- listen - a coffee processing factory and we are waiting for that pledge. I want to get know whether Tororo is included or not?
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Honourable minister, please proceed.
MRS MUGYENYI: Madam Speaker, the Ministry of Agriculture is not the most suited person to answer on behalf of President's office. So, I do not have concrete information on that. But if the promise was made I have no doubt that it will be observed. If it is -(Interruption)
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Just leave it, honourable minister. Proceed with your sector.
MRS MUGYENYI: The ministry in charge of industry does the processing. The ministry in charge of industry and trade will also handle this other factory.
Hon. Ekanya talked about soil fertility deterioration. He said the swamps are being overused for growing rice and drying up. We have not received any information to the effect that the swamps are drying up because of rice growing. We know that we encouraged farmers to grow two types of rice. There is the upland rice and swamp rice.
For a long time Tororo District has been growing rice. I know Kibimba rice- I do not have the information. The ministry will follow up to see whether rice growing in swamps is actually causing environmental problems in our country. We were not aware. we thank you for the information.
But also under the farm enhancement project we are supposed to deal with issues of protecting forests which was your other concern. If you look at the objectives, the activities of that project to be funded by ADB, you will see that we aim at protecting the environment, our forests, planting, restoring soil fertility, rainwater harvesting and so forth.
Now restocking: Restocking was first handled by the Prime Minister's office. But under NLPP, National Livestock Productivity Improvement Project, Tororo is one of the districts to be restocked and the procurement of animals is right now ongoing. Now once these animals are procured your district will benefit from that. So the process is ongoing. That is all I can say.
The cost of inputs by NAADS like pigs and goats: I cannot completely say that there is no corruption amongst our people. Yes, it could be there but there could be exaggeration on the prices.
I would like honourable members to realize that the improved material breeds of animals tend to be more expensive. They are definitely more expensive than the kind of goat you would be buying from the market for slaughter.
If you are looking for an exotic piglet and exotic goat, they are right now few in this country because they more expensive. So, put that into consideration and as you monitor -(Interruptions)
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, honourable minister, please complete your answers. I want to move to another sector. The price of pigs you can talk about it later.
MRS MUGYENYI: Having said that, I do appreciate the fact that the honourable members monitor and oversee how the funds that you approve in this Parliament are used in our different constituencies. We encourage you to bring to our attention any anomalies in this sector.
Now the next issue was about counter part funding. As far as I know the Ministry of Finance gives counter part funding when it has agreed that say a loan contributes this much and Government contributes this much.
In most cases they do, they are delays at times but I do not think that, that is a major problem that we can complain about. The ministry of finance will talk about that. We do sometimes get some delays but we get the funding.
Now the issues of cotton which hon. Kafiire raised. You remember that the Committee on Agriculture was given the task of over studying the cotton sector and bring a report here. My ministry is awaiting that report after which we can be able to act. So the Committee on Agriculture is handling this issue.
Hon. Kubeketerya- I have to be very careful with names. How many fish landing sites? There are about 33 fish landing sites to be constructed under the ADB loan. Work has started but I cannot precisely tell you whether some fish landing sites have already been constructed. But I know that there should be ongoing work on the construction of the landing sites.
When will NAADS roll out to Mayuge? I will provide the information when I get the opportunity on how zoning is done. Zoning is done according to the suitability of the area vis-à-vis the farming enterprise. We look at the rainfall; we look at the types of soil; we look at what can best be produced in that area. So we encourage the farmers to produce that particular farming enterprise based on the comparative advantage of the area.
This has been a scientifically done exercise and there is a complete report on zoning. So I would encourage members to get oriented with where their constituency lie in these zones and what are the best enterprises that they should be encouraging their farmers to go into.
Hon. Besisira was concerned about lack of using indicators to measure our success and failure. I want to promise you that we have started exactly doing that. We are able to say given so much that we have invested in we will be able to get out this much. If we are short of that we will know if we have not succeeded or we have succeeded.
The issue of strategic interventions: This question again has come up. We have explained it so many times. We started on the programme of strategic interventions somehow the funding was interrupted by other facing needs. But now we are looking at zoning as the way forward because when we zone, we zone the entire country and encourage and facilitate through NAADS and NARO research in those areas to take particular enterprises.
I do not know whether I should respond to the recommendations of the committee. I had some members saying that it is going to take too long. I do not quite disagree with what is being said, but a lot of what is recommended my ministry is already undertaking in collaboration with the Committee On Agriculture of this House. I thank you honourable members. I thank you, Madam Speaker.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Mugyenyi, I think you forgot the question on tractors.
MS MUGYENYI: Madam Speaker, I thought that the tractors were to be handled under the cotton sector. I did not actually forget, but I thought that since they were meant for the cotton sector- were they not, and since the -(Interruption)
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Kafiire, what were the tractors meant for?
MRS KAFIRE: I wanted to find out where these tractors are. Actually they were even launched by His Excellency. I have the copy here. All I need to hear from the minister is where are these tractors. Palisa is one of the cotton farmer areas. Where are they and who were the beneficiaries? They were for cotton farmers according to the report. So, I would like to find out where they are.
MRS MUGYENYI: Madam Speaker, I would like to be given more time to - it could even be tomorrow- to exactly know where the tractors are. But I have spoken to the technocrat representing cotton and he has informed me that the tractors were issued to the ginners. It is through the ginners -(Interjections)- can I say this first please.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Mukama.
MRS MUGYENYI: You have been with me on this committee you should know as much as I know.
Now it is through the ginners that the cotton are accessing these tractors. But as I said let me under study where the tractors are exactly and I will give a report, Madam Speaker.
MR EKANYA: Madam Speaker, the problem of tsetse flies from Kenya.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Honourable members yesterday we discussed a loan on tsetse flies. How have you helped us to eradicate this problem? What more do you want them to do.
MR EKANYA: Madam Speaker, that loan is for Uganda. We are facing problem with tsetse flies crossing the border.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: It is not for Uganda it is for the region; it is a regional project. Honourable members this practice of the minister finishing then you start another round of debate I will not accept it.
12.57
THE MINSTER WITHOUT PORTFOLIO (Dr Chrispus Kiyonga): Thank you, Madam Speaker. I commend my colleague hon. Mugyenyi for the very clear answer she has given and also thank honourable Members of Parliament for the support they are giving to the sector.
I have been asked to make a brief contribution because some of the points made by hon. Awori were of a strategic and political nature. In my view he made some serious allegation that we need to respond to.
First, I am extremely happy that hon. Aggrey Awori unlike in the past he has come out to commend a strategic policy that we must add value to our agricultural production when processing agricultural produce.
He has also indirectly said- I think the policy for bona bagagawale, all should get rich, would be a good objective. However, he painted the picture as if the Government was merely sloganeering in respect to these points. I think that point cannot go unchallenged.
Many of us here are visiting our local supermarkets and we should be happy to see on the shelves a number of juices being processed from our own pineapples, passion fruits and mangoes. This is a clear response to the policy; this is a clear sign of progress. Of course we must admit that more will need to be done, but we are moving in the right direction.
In respect to fish: I think the policy is succeeding but it is also producing some side effects. All of us will recall that until about 1889/90 this country did not export a single kilo of fish.
As we speak now the fish exports are averaging US$100 million every year. So that has had the effect of exporting a lot of our fish. Part of the negative aspect is that, yes, the supply in the local market is facing problems and what we need is an appropriate response rather than criticize the policy on export.
The Government has now put in place the beginning of an industrialization fund. We need to support this drive so that we add value to the products particularly from agriculture. The issue of coffee has been well articulated by hon. Mugyenyi.
The controversial point that I want to refer to is that of hon. Aggrey Awori. He has about three times stood on the Floor of this House and made serious allegations about the person of the daughter of His Excellency the President in respect to a facility that is now located near the offices of URA, which is intended to encourage export of grains.
The allegation that hon. Awori has made is that a daughter of the President is involved in this programme and in his interpretation he classifies this as corruption. Madam Speaker, the facts are the following.
Government did make deliberate decision under the strategic interventions to encourage grain exports and under that policy the Government did give a subsidy to the basic facilities that the exporters would use to process grain before the exports are made. Now hon. Aggrey Awori himself has said that in encouraging investors we should not only look at the external people.
Now in my view, if he is right that a daughter of the President is part of a group that is exporting grain, I would not have a quarrel per se with the participation of the daughter of the President in export of grains. He would need in my view to demonstrate that in this specific case the participation of the daughter of the President was because she was particularly favoured.
So, I would like to request that since hon. Aggrey Awori has been persistent about this point, he should come to this House, substantiate his charge and then it is handled conclusively. So that we are not here, one meeting, another meeting the same point is being raised in generality. Those are the three points that I wanted to make. Thank you.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you.
MS ALASO: Madam Speaker, I beg your indulgency. The other day when we dealt with Trade and Industry, I asked about the Food Security Strategic Plan and you referred it to today. I asked about it, unfortunately the honourable Minister skipped that bit. Please, Madam Speaker, I would like an answer. It will help me who comes from an area, which is prone to food insecurity.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: What was your question when we were discussing Trade?
MS ALASO: Last time the policy statement indicated they had started the process of making it and they had hoped to accomplish it in last financial year. It was indicated as one of those areas in which they had jointly participated with Ministry of Agriculture. But they said the Ministry of Agriculture would give a full report to us. That is what I was asking this morning.
MR NANDALA: Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. There are many issues, which have been raised and some of them in the report touch on the Committee on the National Economy.
I want to put it clear on record that, Madam Speaker, in your office you are aware that one of the loans which is being mentioned here. We wrote to you that we wanted to be on the order paper. Despite the fact that it is supposed to be on the Order Paper the Minister of Water, Lands and Environment was supposed to have made responses.
In May and July we wrote back to him and he has never made a single response and that is why there is a delay; but the report is ready.
The most interesting point, which brought all these contentious issue is this loan for US $51 million and US$25 million for capacity building. This has been the most contentious issue. So we were saying how can half of the loan be for capacity building instead of input? That is number one.
Number two, I have not seen in the report of the committee, the committee addressing some loans which were approved long ago and what has been done.
I will give an example. We have northwest small-scale holders. This is the US$25 million loan, which was approved by the sixth Parliament. By the end of last year only US$2 million, that is, US$5 billion had been spent and it consists of a lot of things about Northern Uganda and North West Uganda, irrigation, farming; it is all agriculture. Yesterday, the Minister of Agriculture denied -(Interruptions)
MR MUSUMBA: Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. I want to be guided on a point of procedure. The hon. Chairman for the National Economy is saying he has not seen a number of loans that we approved in this House, but were utilized in the agriculture sector being accounted for in the report.
Madam Speaker, from my knowledge I know that the Committee on National Economy is mandated in its own right by the Constitution, Rules of Procedure of Parliament and the Budget Act to call for accountability and evaluation of performance of those loans because it is the one that asks this Parliament to approve them.
On a point of procedure, may I seek clarification why the chairman has not brought the report? We are still waiting for the reports from that committee. He is again pushing the assignment to another committee that has a mandate of its own nature. May I be guided, Madam Speaker, on a point of procedure?
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Honourable chairperson, you know that your committee has the biggest eye on every aspect of our economy. So, I do not know if you have called the sector ministers to explain how far they have gone and they have refused to give you information.
MR BANYENZAKI: Thank you, Madam Speaker. The Committee on National Economy mandated me to be the Chairperson of Micro Finance Sub-Committee. This is the committee that was created within the National Economy committee to oversee the sector of micro finance and utilization of the loan we approved here.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Of all the loans?
MR BANYENZAKI: The Outreach Plan: it was a loan -(Interjections)- let me make this clear the House is getting confused.
I personally wrote to the Minister of Finance twice. I caused a meeting for the Chairman of the Committee and reported to him that these people are not reporting back. He personally wrote a letter inviting the Minister of Finance to come and we discuss the issues of micro finance, but they have never appeared.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Honourable member, I do not know whether we are discussing micro finance. You came in when the member there was saying that many loans have been passed in this house for the agricultural sector and they have not been utilized. That is the point he was making.
MR BANYENZAKI: Madam Speaker, there was a loan we passed for Outreach plan, which has a component of financial extension workers and an inter-linkage with the agricultural sector.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Banyenzaki we are not talking about micro finance and outreach. He said there are several loans we have passed, not one loan.
MR OKUPA: Madam Speaker, I am not a member of the committee, but I remember this is not the first time this issue is rising.
I do remember a Committee on National Economy did present a report here on loans. It was presented to this House by hon. Capt. Guma Gumisiriza and these issues were raised. I am now surprised to hear that they failed to bring it for debate. Rtd Capt. Guma Gumisiriza did present that report here in this House.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: But your Chairman is saying that nobody has reported. If it is his committee that presented why doesn't he know?
1.00
MR NATHAN NANDALA (Budadiri County West, Sironko): Madam Speaker, I am surprised to hear the Minister of Finance saying that the committee has never done anything. The same committee came here and categorically presented a report.
There are those specific areas of agriculture, which are in respect of the loans that have never been discussed. The minister was present and the Chairman was present. The Minister of Agriculture is crying that he does not have money -(Interruption)
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Honourable members -(Interjection)- Chairperson, I am going to give you an opportunity.
MR ODIT: I am getting disappointed that an irrelevant issue is bogging us down at the moment.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Honourable members, in your report you asked the committee to handle expeditiously the farm enhancement matter. The minister similarly asked the committee to handle it expeditiously. So you explain on that one and we finish.
NANDALA: Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. What I am trying to put across is that as much as Ministry of Agriculture is claiming that they do not have resources, they have more than enough resources which are not being utilized. People are complaining of mugongowazi here.
There was a fish loan, which is supposed to have produced fish flies and develop landing sites. This was approved, if I recall well, end of 2001 or beginning of 2002. Up to now there is no single landing site, which has been made; there are no fish flies in place and we are talking of developing agriculture.
MS KIRASO: Madam Speaker, I am rising on a point of procedure. I do not want us to lose hon. Nandala Mafabi's point because it is very important and it cuts across many sectors; utilization of loans.
The Budget Act, section 13, requires Government either at the time of presentation of the budget or at any time before 15th of June in each financial year to present to Parliament information relating to the total indebtedness of all these laws. It is true also that the Committee on National Economy did present a report to this House, which was not debated.
The procedural matter on which I am rising is for us not to lose focus on this particular sector and other sectors, which have been benefiting from these loans. I would like to confirm that this report was presented this financial year.
Can we now have a specific report on the indebtedness to-date so that all these issues which were raised in the last report and which will arise out of this year's report are put on table, debated up to their logical conclusion. Madam Speaker, may be to give credence to what hon. Nandala Mafabi is saying so that we do not now go back to the loan given to agricultural sector in particular.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: So you are asking the Minister of Finance to give us a report on the indebtedness?
MS KIRASO: The report was presented, Madam Speaker. This law, the Budget Act, requires them to present it at the time of presenting the budget or before. It is now with us, it is the property of the House; we have it, it is in our possession. If the committee picked it and made a report to the House with all these sectors having an input - of course he will need the cooperation of the sector chairpersons. Let them bring the utilization of all these loans so that it is debated conclusively.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: But that one we can do after the recess since he is here.
MR NANDALA: Madam Speaker, first of all, before I draw my last conclusion. If all these loans are not disbursed they attract a surcharge. I want to plead with the House we have a lot of money in loan stocks which is there waiting to be utilized but the absorption capacity in ministries does not exist. Every now an then we are claiming more money and the money, which is there waiting for utilization is attracting a charge.
What I wanted to say was about this income enhancement. Madam Speaker, I have written to you. I would be very happy if we vote today or tomorrow. It should be the first thing on the Order Paper so that we dispose off this matter.
I want the members to look at the whole report very carefully. You might be thinking of the loans here, which we are talking about, the income enhancement, but if you go in detail even the Ministry of Agriculture which is crying for it, it has a small component of about US$ 2 million. So, I do not know how -but I plead with them they have to produce these documents and we look at them.
Now tractors, we approved in last year's budget- I recall that we were going to take tractors to northern Uganda. I hope they have taken those tractors. This is another thing the Ministry of Agriculture should have as a component because it was approved that there would be tractors for northern Uganda. I hope they are there. I also recall every sub-county was given a tractor. I do not know if those tractors do exist.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: I think the Minister has said -(Interruption)
MR NANDALA: So, Madam Speaker, as much as we are talking about the tractors we must also carryout an input and output. This money could have been taken to the Ministry of Agriculture but they used it for another thing.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: I think the minister has undertaken to give us information tomorrow about those tractors.
Now concerning the loans. The report was brought here, but it was partially debated. There were issues in the Ministry of Finance that they wanted to respond to. So we shall give it time after the recess and we debate it fully.
MR MUSUMBA: Madam Speaker, I understood the Chairperson of the committee to be requesting you to consider putting on the Order Paper the loan request we made on farm income enhancement.
Madam Speaker, may I sustain that request by supporting it because it has been with the committee for too long. It is costing this country's credibility: Credibility in the sense that the development partners do not think that we are serious. We would want the Parliament to consider the merits of the loan and we pronounce ourselves on it at the earliest possible opportunity.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, honourable member, I do not want the impression to be created that I have failed to put this matter on the Order Paper; no, I have not. I put matters on the Order Paper which are ready. If I receive a report, I put it on the Order Paper- (Interruption)- No, that was speculation. If it is ready I will put it there. I do not put matters on the Order Paper by speculation.
It is true he wrote to me and said he would like these matters on the Order Paper. But I only saw the report on the teste flies, which I put on the Order Paper and we discussed yesterday.
CAPT. BABU: Madam Speaker, for a matter of procedure there are different committees in this House. Some of the things I have just been hearing seem to fall in the armpits of the Government Assurance Committee.
I wanted to find out whether the Government Assurance Committee after these other committees have done their work are not the ones to find out what has happened. I wanted to find out so that we divide this work equally. The Committee on Economy will do the work of the Government Assurance Committee and we will start having probleMs Thank you very much.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: There is a report from Government Assurance, which will be discussed. But some are so cross cutting that you cannot say you must stop here and leave these only for-
MR LUBOWA: Madam Speaker, I am Vice Chairman to that Committee that is why I have been standing up to say something about construction of landing sites.
We called a number of ministers and officials, but in the case of Agriculture there is an area that was missing regarding construction of landing sites or the area of fisheries. They had not come with the relevant information. So we urged them to give us information in a weeks time, but up to now we have not received any information regarding that one.
I hear the minister saying there is work going on, but she is not sure. I feel it should come together with the question of tractors. Let us get that information, but we have a report ready as a committee.
1.18
THE CHAIRPERSON, SESSIONAL COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE, ANIMAL INDUSTRY AND FISHERIES (Mr John Odit): Madam Speaker, I want to thank you and I want to thank the House for supporting the Agricultural sector. I only hope that this spirit will continue.
As I said last year, let us not lose sight because this is the key sector that employs most of our poor voters. Anything that tends to frustrate or destroy or delay activities that go along way to support them should not be welcomed.
I have only two or three general comments. The first one is on cotton. It is true that we were mandated by the Parliamentary resolution to investigate the sector and we are doing the job.
Only two days ago I was in Ivory Cost. This is a country that was highly recommended for organizing their cotton industry. There is no country that has failed to go and study the cotton industry in that country. This is going to be part of our report.
We have also got an experience from Tanzania so that when we bring our report for debate and review the statute, it should be well researched. I think that is the status of cotton in response to the parliamentary resolution.
On NAADS, agriculture is a scientific undertaking. You may invest today and you do not get the result tomorrow. This is why we have been appealing for a special bank to support agriculture because of its nature and the time it takes.
So, when we talk of NAADS being absent, sometimes being present, sometimes giving different technologies, which have no market. We need to seriously reflect on our concerns when we are expressing our views in this House. This is a new programme
DR ESELE: I thank you, Madam Speaker. I also thank my Chairman for giving way. There is a very important thing as far as NAADS is concerned and that is farming community. These are people who have an embedded idea of what they want to do. So really changing their attitude matters a lot. Where it is, you may not actually imagine that it is there.
If I can give an example: You go to my constituency, these are people who have grown maize year in year out. You cannot easily teach them to grow maize; they already know. In that place the demonstration plots matter a lot.
You should show these people how you put in fertilizer; this depends on the number of time you till the land. So, the neighbours come and see the demonstration plot and they actually catch up with it. So, it is just a matter of sitting down with them, changing their attitude and attitude is what matters a lot. I thank you.
MR ODIT: Thank you very much, Dr Esele. I think it is in that spirit that we should take new Government programmes. We should also not forget that we have undertaken serious economic reform, which requires institutional change, change in attitude, resources and time. So we really get disappointed when we come here after one year a programme is on the ground you already crucifying it. We have to be patient. (Applause)
I will say this, honourable members. When the issue of cotton generated serious debate this committee was summoned to State House - invited -(Laughter)- The first challenge, which we faced there, was whether or not we had researched on the issues we had raised? Sometimes we act on the basis of minimum information and more so when we are trying to see how to change a policy or enact a law, which should really live beyond the life of our Parliament.
The same poor honourable member is complaining of coffee wilt sweeping across his area, but where does he report? He is now burdening the same ministry. If the ministry does nothing the coffee will be no more and that is when he will fully miss agriculture.
Similarly, we had a problem with water icing here in this country, if that ministry was closed we would have a different story in this country. This is why we are emphasizing that despite the fact that that ministry is given little money it is still surviving and we are pushing hard for more and more resources.
Our target is that we progressively improve the budget allocation until we attain the 10 percent so that we can be at par with Maputo protocol.
We have been in this committee without changing over the last five years. We are grateful that we have been able to push hard and the Government has been able also to positively respond from 1.2 percent in 2001, today we can say with pride that the sector is receiving 4.3 percent of the budget. This is positive.
We have been promised, for those who will come back next year after election, that the sector will receive 7 percent. We should really give credit to the initiative from Parliament and to the sector and to our committee.
So, honourable members, let us be kind to this economy; let us be kind to this sector. When we are raising concerns we should not raise serious alarm. We should reflect on our comments and we should totally discourage the idea of saying NAADS does not exist. I do not agree with that allegation.
I want to thank, Madam Speaker, for giving us this time to respond to the issues that were addressed.
MR OKUPA: Madam Speaker, the honourable chairman did mention a threat facing our fish industry. He says the female number is detoriating, but we know the existing technology of sex reversal. How far has Uganda gone in solving this problem? You remember when we were in Jinja we were informed about this.
MR ODIT: Madam Speaker, I think last year and the other year out of demand from Parliament the Speaker offered a full day for a scientific seminar at the International Conference Centre, disappointingly, less than 30 Members of Parliament went there.
Now, that has reminded me of one thing. Our committee has talked with the Ministry of Agriculture and NARO scientists so that agriculture science and technology can be brought nearer to Parliament.
We, therefore, requested the Sergeant at Arms to give us facilities so that at the Parliamentary Gardens we can get a symposium so that agriculture has an opportunity to exhibit what they are doing.
Sergeant at Arms has already accepted. We are only going to request for a day and mobilize fully and that will be the opportunity for you to seek all scientific answers and questions addressed. So that when we come back here we are fully informed and we can now debate from position of knowledge. I thank you.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you, Chairperson. what I can say is that the office of the Speaker has always been ready to give you that time to do what you want.
Now, honourable members, as you appreciate we still have two reports. We intend to go on recess tomorrow at lunchtime. So, let me invite the Chairperson, Presidential and Foreign Affairs to present and then we take a small break.
1.35
THE CHAIRPERSON, SESSIONAL COMMITTEE ON PRESIDENTIAL AND FOREIGN AFFAIRS (Mrs Margaret Zziwa): Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. I wish to present to this august House the report of the Committee on Presidential and Foreign Affairs for this financial year 2005-2006.
As I begin let me appreciate the Budget Committee for the format, which it prepared, which enabled us to go through this exercise a little bit more expeditiously.
You will allow me, though our report is quite voluminous, I will be able to highlight some areas and I will skip a few others. The members have the report and they will be able to follow.
According to Rule 154 of our Rules of Procedure. My committee wishes to present a report for consideration of the vote 001, that is the Office of the President, Vote 002- State House, Vote 003- Office of the Prime Minister, Vote 006- Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Vote 107- Uganda Aids Commission, Vote 135- Mass Mobilisation and vote 201, 229- that is the Missions Abroad.
The methodology. We were able to interface with all the sector ministers namely the Prime Minister, Minister in Charge of the Presidency, Minister of Foreign Affairs, this time it was the Minister in Charge of International Cooperation and the NPC.
On Vote 001- Office of the President: We were able to get the performance of the previous Budget 2004-2005. We were also able to see the key planned programmes for that financial year. Allow me not to read all of them because they are quite detailed.
We were able to receive what was done on the development sector within the office of the President. I will not go through it because of the time.
Allow me just to mention the amounts, which were appropriated in the financial year 2004-2005 for Vote 001 were the recurrent expenditure is 32,162,766,000 and the development expenditure - Ugshs 2,224,000,000. The projects, nothing really was appropriated there. Statutory expenditure- Ugshs 5,085,200,000 was appropriated.
Supplementary Appropriation: This sector received under the recurrent expenditure- Ugshs 2,000,407,336. The development expenditure and projects did not receive anything. So for that financial year which we have just concluded, the office of the President received, Ugshs 39,765,977,957 and development expenditure received, Ugshs 1,660,453,807.
Allow me also, Madam Speaker, to commit the achievements under vote 001 for this financial year because they are quite lengthy. We noted that there were tremendous achievements. Maybe just for purposes of the budget aspect I will note the pending or ongoing activities for this programme.
· Procurement of some security equipment: There is sound broadcasting, buying of satellite and rehabilitation of TV network and procurement of studio equipment and transmitters at Kololo.
· Strengthening of office of the President by equipping offices of the RDC.
· Construction of Government offices and the renovation of the presidential suite in the external wing of the Parliamentary buildings and the renovation of Nakasero annex block.
· Payment to the International Telecommunication Satellite totaling to Ugshs 696 million. I decided to read that because I think we need to see how we can recast it in this financial year.
Within the planned activities there are also quite many, but I will read some of them. The office of the President intends to continue doing the following:
· Monitor His Excellency the President's election manifesto.
· Facilitate policy making process and coordinating of Government activities
· Manage the transition.
· Organize and prepare the holding of the three national days, that is, Independence Day, Heroes day and Victory day.
· Engage in recruitment, training and development of staff.
· Provide logistical support to RDCs and deputy RDCs.
· Contribute to the system of intelligence that supports national decision-making,
· Mobilize the population for development.
· Coordinate all bodies involved in fighting against HIV/AIDS.
· Monitor PAF funded projects at all district levels.
· Collect, analyses and verify information on policies, programmes and projects from Government, ministries and agencies.
· Purchase classified and communication equipment for security organizations.
· Revise implementation strategy for operationalizing team and conditions of service for security organizations.
· Improve information technology capacity or capabilities of security organizations and their office premises.
· Construct a training institute and office premise for security organization.
· Replenish the transport system for security organization. Strength the coordination, legal and enforcement framework to improve effective anti corruption actions and objectives.
· Strengthen public and political active participation in the fight against corruption.
· Build strong and sustainable systems and institutional capacities within anti corruption agencies.
· Work with agencies to ensure that national anti corruption strategy as identified under the World Bank poverty reduction support credit is implemented.
· Provide support to Cabinet in fulfilling its constitutional mandate.
· Provide courier services to Government departments and institutions.
· Organize a leadership forum for ministers and Permanent Secretaries on the national vision.
· Organize seminar for top and senior management on transition period and compile quarter returns from ministries and submit them to Cabinet.
· Promote the implementation of right to access to information and the ICT policy.
· Formulate Government policy on pornography, information and broadcasting.
· Monitor the district information systems and facilitate the training of district information officers.
· Promote Government public relations through the holding the Government weekly press briefings and operationalise Government information center.
· Operationalise the creation of Statutory Broadcasting Body, expand, produce and transmit news, educational and entertainment programmes on TV and radio.
· Generate and collect land tax revenue.
· Ensure payments for staff terminal benefits on the privatization of Uganda Broadcasting Corporation.
· Recruit staff that is Radio Uganda and UTV specifically.
· Recruit staff for the headquarters and RDCs,
· Ensure timely payment of staff salaries and promote other motivation and welfare measures.
· Ensure implementation of public service regulations and computerized records in registries.
· Organize board meetings.
· Reorient the Public Service towards the new political dispensation.
There are also development budget plans. I want just briefly to go through them.
· The office of the President intends to improve sound broadcasting by satellite and rehabilitate the TV network.
· Strengthen office of the President by procuring two ministerial vehicles, procuring four double cabin pick-ups for RDCS, procuring 20 computers for headquarters and RDCs, procuring furniture and other office equipment for RDCs,
· Completing the Internet installation at the headquarters.
· Under the construction of Government offices, office of the President still intends to renovate the external presidential suite or wing of the parliamentary buildings.
So, for all these, the amount requested stands as follows. Recurrent expenditure - wait a minute. Madam Speaker, I beg your indulgence. I have got a corrigendum from the Budget Committee just now. I want to see -(Interruption)
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Honourable Chairperson, do not worry about the figures. We shall handle all of them during the Committee of Supply.
MRS ZZIWA: So the figures for recurrent expenditure as per the report, Ugshs 33,952,368,000 and development expenditure, Ugshs 3,026,415,000. Projects and other expenditures, I think as of now nothing has been listed.
We have a list of recommendations and it is important to go through them very quickly because the committee's recommendations reconciled with some of the recommendations from the Budget Committee.
Renovation of the presidential suite wing: The Budget Committee recommended that the fund that has been earmarked for the renovation of the presidential suite be reallocated to Parliament to contribute to the comprehensive renovation of the entire parliamentary building. The entire Parliamentary Building should be devoted to increased space demands of Parliament. This is mainly because the construction of Entebbe State House is ongoing and a lot of space is expected.
b) The impending increase in the demand for space in the 8th Parliament.
c) There is a sense of security risk which is sensed in that, having four dignitaries of this country under the same roof namely the Vice President, Speaker, Deputy Speaker and of course the first person of this country, the President, under one roof can be a very heavy security risk. So the committee notes that the office of the President has continued to press for this plan, and that is where our difficulty comes in.
On leasing of office equipment and vehicles, the Budget Committee recommended that Government undertake a cost benefit study to explore the possibility of leasing vehicles and office equipment against buying and establish its viability.
The committee was informed that Cabinet considered the proposal and made a survey on the possibility of adopting it but found it unviable because of the conditionalities attached which were very uneconomical.
On implementation of the ongoing sector policies for instance - namely: television licenses, the committee is concerned that the department of information has not made any effort to sensitise the public on the law establishing Uganda Broadcasting Corporation with particular reference to the provision for the payment of television license.
As a result the population is not supportive of the television tax and is not willing to pay. The committee recommends therefore, that funds must be invested in advocacy if the tax is to succeed.
Two, that the department of information should continue to research on how best to manage UBC.
On border meetings, Madam Speaker, the committee noted that the office of the President is mandated to organise border meetings but observed that in these meetings Uganda's delegations are often outwitted by the other delegations because of the differential compositions of these delegations.
Uganda sends junior representatives, while other countries send high power delegations. Uganda therefore, gets a raw deal from many of these meetings. The minister undertook to address this anomaly.
On weekly press briefings, Madam Speaker, the committee commended the Minister of Information for the weekly press briefings but noted that, there was need to increase their frequency to match the rate at which other sections of press disseminate information to the public.
The current press briefings have been reduced to re-actions to previous press reports. So the committee recommends that the press briefings by the Minister of Information be increased from once to thrice a week.
New emerging policies and programmes: This includes the creation of new districts during the constitution review process, which resulted into creation of new spending pressures for the office of the President and in particular reference need for new RDCs. The committee recommends that funds be found for this budget; otherwise it is not proper for a district to exist probably without an RDC.
Vote 002, State House:
Madam Speaker, allow me to mention that we were able to observe the performance of the previous budget that is 2004/2005, we were able to note the key planned programmes within that vote.
We were also able to note the development activities and allow me just to mention that within that financial year the amount appropriated was for recurrent expenditure 24,105,149,000. For development expenditure 40,161,529,000 and for the project nothing was appropriated.
But there was a supplementary appropriation, which was under the recurrent expenditure, and this totaled to 25,384,238,000; and for the development expenditure 2,333, 59,000. For the project nothing was appropriated under the supplementary expenditure.
So in total the amounts released by the Ministry of Finance, Planning and Economic Development during the financial year totaled to Ug shs 46,928,587,000. For development expenditure Ug shs 28,933,519,794,and for the project, nothing was appropriated.
I have a long list of the achievements, which were made. Allow me to skip them but just mention the pending or ongoing activities, Madam Speaker.
Among the pending or ongoing activities, there is the renovation of most of the upcountry state lodges, which are in a very deplorable condition. There is procurement of some specialised vehicles and settlement of long outstanding Presidential pledges and domestic arrears.
Now within the planned or proposed activities for 2005/2006, Madam Speaker, you will allow me to read these because they reflect directly on the current budget.
There is within the recurrent activities, there is to sustain the effort to end war in the North and North - eastern part of the country.
There is to intensify effort to promote regional integration international relations and investment.
There is mobilisation of the population towards social economic transformation and poverty eradication.
There is promotion of investment strategies provision of logistical support and security for the effective performance and welfare of His Excellency the President and His Excellency the Vice President and their families.
Continuation with work and the re-development of State House Entebbe and within the development activities there are plans to renovate two State Lodges, purchase some vehicles, office equipment, security equipment, office furniture and household furniture and to meet the Presidential jet lease expenses.
So the amount requested, Madam Speaker, for recurrent expenditure is Ug shs 35,7,939,000. For development expenditure is Ug shs 14,858 million and for the project, nothing has been appropriated.
Allow me briefly and quickly, Madam Speaker, to talk about the recommendation of the committee for this sector. The committee was concerned that many activities carried out by State House are a mandate for other Government ministries and departments and this was deemed wasteful as budget resources are duplicated and service delivery becomes deficient.
The committee recommended that state house should only carry out supervisory roles over these ministries. The committee was informed that most of the AGOA activities have been transferred to the Ministry of Tourism, Trade and Industry and what State House is left with is basically the supervisory role over the ministry to ensure that AGOA programmes run according to plan.
On on-going sector policies on presidential pledges, the committee was concerned that numerous presidential pledges have not been fulfilled to date, yet the President's term is coming to an end.
The minister informed the committee that her office called upon Members of Parliament during the last session to compile a list of pledges the President made to their constituencies for on-ward transmission to the line ministries for incorporation in the ministry budgets as had been recommended by this Committee, but very few Members responded. The minister undertook to ask the members for the list again so that these pledges can be handled comprehensively.
Violation Of State Protocol By State House Officials:
Madam Speaker, the committee was concerned that some officials from State House have over time defied State protocol by officiating at functions and even making donations on behalf of Government in the presence of senior Government officials like ministers.
The minister informed the committee that it is not possible for the President to send a State House official to represent him at a function yet he had enough ministers to do the job.
She blamed the apparent violation of State protocol by State House officials on the communities that organise these functions because it is these communities that invite State House officials in their individual capacities to officiate the said functions.
Transportation for His Excellency, the President:
Madam Speaker, the committee was concerned that the President's transport around the country could be constrained given the recent crash of the only Presidential helicopter the country had.
The Committee was, however, assured that the President had adequate transport to traverse the country by road. However, if need arose for a helicopter, the UPDF Air Force that is charged with the responsibility of providing the President with air transport inland has enough helicopters that could be used for the purpose.
Madam Speaker, I beg to move to Vote 003 - Office of the Prime Minister: The key performance of the previous budget, that is, 2004/2005, was given and the planned programmes were given and I wish to report that amounts totaling to - for the recurrent expenditure, Ug shs 2,399,183,000 was appropriated and for the development expenditure, Ug shs 53,812,050,000 was appropriated and this includes the donor component. Also Ug shs 4,785,647,054 local component was appropriated.
For the supplementary appropriation, this sector under the recurrent expenditure received Ug shs 751,000,000 and this was mainly for relief. I wish to report that this sector received 100 percent fund release the previous financial year. The totals, Madam Speaker, are:
For Recurrent Expenditure: Ug shs 3,150,183,000
For Development Expenditure: Ug shs 53,812,050
There are achievements for the financial year 2004/2005, allow me not to read them and I want just to read the ongoing activities for this programme.
In the leadership, Madam Speaker, the sector intends to continue presiding over inter-ministerial meetings to harmonise issues requiring coordination; to continue coordinating Government business in Parliament; to continue compilation and management of Government legislative programmes in liaison with Parliament and line ministers.
Madam Speaker, within also financial management, it wishes to continue ensuring that the structure of the ministry is properly expended and properly utilised.
Madam Speaker, also in monitoring and evaluation obligation, it will continue to see that the NIMES is operationalised; it will continue to monitor the performance of sector programmes and coordinating the poverty reduction -(Interruptions)
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Honourable Chairperson, you know sometimes when you abbreviate these matters in the Hansard, I do not know whether somebody who will read this, five years from now will understand what NIMES is.
MRS ZZIWA: My apologies, Madam Speaker. NIMES stands for National Integrated Monitoring and Evaluation Strategy.
Within Northern Uganda, Madam Speaker, the sector intends to continue coordinating the development of the recovery and development plan for Northern Uganda, restocking the Northern Uganda districts; supervising the Northern Uganda Social Action Fund (NUSAF); disaster management in here.
Development of the Disaster Legal Framework:
Decongestion and Planning for 133 major IDP camps to avoid fire and other disasters; implementation of the IDP policy; collaboration with the Ministry of Defence and the Ministry of Internal Affairs in demining former war ravaged areas.
Under the refugees, we are to continue developing a national conflict resolution and peace policy-building framework.
For the planned activities for this financial year, Madam Speaker, within the leadership, of course there is coordinating Government business in Parliament, compilation and management of Government legislative programme in liaison with Parliament and line ministers.
Within the financial management, ensuring that all funds are appropriated under the recurrent and development are expended and accounted for with the given guidelines.
In the Human Resource Sector, we are to ensure that the structure of the ministry is in line with the provided guidelines and mandate.
Within the monitoring and evaluation, operationalising the National Integrated Monitoring and Evaluation Strategy, monitoring the performance of the sector and coordinating the Poverty Reduction Support Credit to the Government of Uganda.
Within the Northern Uganda, coordinating the development of the recovery and development plan for Northern Uganda; restocking of Northern Uganda districts and supervising of the NUSAF and Disaster Management and Refugees, all those activities, Madam Speaker.
Within the development activities and I wish to read this because it has a very important component here. Under the Development Budget, under NUSAF, there is going to be focus on the project design with the aim of designing modalities to improve accessibility of NUSAF funds to ensure speedy delivery, and to strengthen collaboration with other partners and stakeholders complementarily where NUSAF operate.
There is strategic restocking and collection of data on all past development activities in the Luweero since its inception and to ensure that the War Debt Verification Committee is facilitated.
So the amount required, Madam Speaker, under this sector; for recurrent is Ug shs 3,706,390,000. For the development expenditure it is Ug shs 94,216,296,000, this is donor-inclusive, but exclusive of tax and Ug shs 11,319,991,000 for local contribution.
Briefly let me mention the recommendations and observations of the Committee:
On Non Governmental Organisations (NGOs) in Northern Uganda, the committee observed that there are many NGOs operating in Northern Uganda with no evident impact, and they recommended that the NGO Board should be properly facilitated to undertake the monitoring of NGOs in the whole country.
Of course the committee was informed that Office of the Prime Minister has started with the process of coordinating and streamlining NGOs handling health matters in Northern Uganda and systematically the rest will follow.
Feeding of Internally Displaced Persons (IDPs); the committee has expressed its dissatisfaction with the inadequacy of the relief food distributed to the IDPs in Northern Uganda and noted that Government has relegated this activity to the World Food Programme, showing lack of Government commitment to the plight of the IDPs.
The committee was informed that the operationalisation of the IDP Policy will sort out all the anomalies and the IDP management would be streamlined; and of course there is a recommended adjustment. I think I will omit that because I have seen there is a corrigendum.
On comments on the implementation of ongoing sectors, the Committee on Luweero Triangle was concerned that the activities of the Ministry of Luweero Triangle duplicate the roles of line ministries.
It also noted that the Ministry of Luweero has outlived its usefulness because the districts in the Triangle are far better off economically than some of other districts in the country hence no need for affirmative action for the triangle.
The committee observed that with the decentralization policy, disadvantaged should be dealt with under the equalisation grant. The committee therefore recommends that the programmes of Minister of Luweero Triangle should be integrated in the respective districts.
NUSAF: Madam Speaker, the committee noted that the communities that benefited from phase one of NUSAF have greatly appreciated the project, but they would like to see more adjustments in the management of the project with a view of empowering the people to improve their household incomes as opposed to the current focus on communities.
The committee therefore recommends that 75 percent of the funds should be channeled through Vulnerable Group Support (VGS) as opposed to Community Development Initiatives (CDI). The committee also recommended that the release of NUSAF funds for approved projects should be made faster than is the case currently because the delay in release of funds holds back the communities from initiating the next project.
The Karamoja question, Madam Speaker; the committee in the year 2004/2005 recommended that the Karamoja Development Agency (KDA) should be repealed because it was inactive. The committee was, however, informed that on consultation with the Karamoja community on the recommendation, the Minister for Karamoja Affairs was informed that the people of Karamoja did not support the idea of scraping KDA.
The committee then noted that funds to Karamoja are currently channeled through Karamoja Project Implementation Unit (KPIU) and not KDA, and yet the latter is a statutory body as opposed to the former. So the committee recommends that since the population favors the retention of KDA, the agency should be restructured to observe KPIU so that the funds are channeled to Karamoja through one body.
National interests: The committee observed that one of the planned activities for the Office of the Prime Minister in the financial year 2005/2006 is to meet and consult with the international community on matters of national interest.
The committee is concerned that the term "national interests" as appears in the Constitution is vague and is subject to various interpretations that could be used to the advantage of selfish groups.
The committee recommends that the Executive should clearly define Uganda's national interests in a non-partisan manner and make it known to the population.
Parliamentary resolutions: The committee appreciates the fact that constitutionally Parliamentary resolutions are not binding to the Executive, but was concerned that despite the importance of some of the resolutions passed by Parliament with a view of betterment of the lives of Ugandans, the Executive seems to disregard them without due consideration.
The committee was informed that Cabinet always considers Parliamentary resolutions and explains its decisions to the House. Indeed some resolutions have been adopted and others rejected, but in both cases, there is proper justification for the decision taken by Cabinet.
Madam Speaker, I wish to move to Vote 006, which is the Ministry of Foreign Affairs:
Madam Speaker, we were able to receive the performance of the previous budget, 2004/2005, and we were able to see what was planned in the 2004/2005 financial year, allow me to skip that; and also what was planned as development activities for the 2004/2005, and they also had special programmes or activities.
Allow me just to mention that the amounts for the financial year 2004/2005, which was appropriated, amounted to: for Vote 006, which is the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Ug shs 10,633,101,000; and for Vote 201 up to Vote 229, these are Missions abroad, it totaled to Ug shs 21,750,000,000; and for the development expenditure Vote 006 totaled to Ug shs 353,400,000, and for Vote 201 to Vote 229 it totaled to Ug shs 420,000,000 only; and for the projects, nothing was appropriated.
For that financial year there was some supplementary expenditure, some supplementary release to Vote 006, which amounted to Ug shs 7,202,858,464; and for Vote 201 up to Vote Ug shs 229, 9,000,000,000 was released under supplementary appropriation.
For development expenditure, Ug shs 200,000,000 was appropriated under the supplementary expenditure. So the total amount released in the financial year we have just concluded amounted to: under the recurrent expenditure, Vote 006, Ug shs 17,835,931,654; and for Vote 201 to Vote 229, it totaled to Ug shs 30,750,000,000 only.
For development expenditure, Madam Speaker, it totaled to Ug shs 510,050,000 and for vote 201 to 229 it totaled to Ug shs 420,000,000 only and for project nothing was appropriated.
I will skip the achievements of the Ministry during the Financial Year 2004/2005 but just talk about the pending or on going because some of them will be captured in this current year.
There are the preparatory activities for hosting the CHOGM (Commonwealth Heads of Government meeting) then there is the first Tracking East African Federation Activities and there is payment to service providers.
Also I want to move to the planned activities this financial year, they are quite long but I will go through them very quickly.
Madam Speaker, within the recurrent activities, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs intends to pay service providers to facilitate first tracking of the East African Federation. It will continue to host special envoys and foreign dignitaries to continue facilitating and attending the joint permanent commissions between Uganda and Rwanda, DRC, Sudan and Egypt.
It will continue to facilitate and attend cross border meetings with Kenya, Rwanda and Tanzania. It will continue to facilitate the Great Lakes conference and meetings, facilitate and attending bilateral agreements review.
Acquiring of systems and equipment for conference and committee rooms, refurbishing the Ministry's library, participating in the regional integration process of East African Community, COMESA, IGAD, AU and OIC.
Participating in the promotion of Global Peace Process in the UN, negotiating of World Trade Regime under WTO, promotion of trade, investment and tourism in the ministry.
Mobilising of resources on bilateral and multilateral basis for grants, loans and technical assistance, advocating for debt cancellation and relief.
Seeking employment opportunities abroad for Ugandans, facilitating the travel of Ugandans abroad, provide counselor services abroad.
Providing protocol services for state and national functions, securing and providing facilitation for diplomats accredited to Uganda and maintaining the Ministry head quarter building.
Within the development sector the wish to finalise the consultant discussions I think these are to do with the ministry's building.
Then to purchase three vehicles and to purchase and maintain the machinery and equipment and within the projects they want to undertake to travel to Malta for consultation on CHOGM 2007 preparation.
They wish to continue facilitating the Great Lakes region meetings and to follow up on the ICT project, which they had started on.
So, under the Ministry of Foreign Affairs this financial year the recurrent expenditure, this vote 006 will amount to Ug shs 1,910,000,0000 and within Votes 201-229 it is Ug shs 23,440,000,000. For the Development expenditure Vote 006 will amount to Ug shs 800,000,000 and then vote 201-229 it will amount to Ug shs 710,000,000.
For projects and other expenditures in the CHOGM it will total to Ug shs 10,000,000,000, Madam Speaker, and under the East African Community, it will total amount to Ug shs 5,378,385,000.
I want just to put a small note on this vote, Madam Speaker there has been a recommendation by the Budget Committee that the vote for East African Legislative Assembly be removed from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs to Parliamentary Commission. I want to consult and see whether this can be done this financial year or it will be done in next financial year. But I think the recommendation is very acceptable.
For the recommendations, Madam Speaker, the committee wishes to recommend on missions abroad that last financial year the recommendation that the management of property abroad should be streamlined to improve their efficiency and effectiveness.
The committee was informed that a Cabinet sub-committee chaired by hon. Adolf Mwesige was constituted to deal with the matter and is due to report back to Cabinet. I think it is a matter, which is long overdue and it awaits a quick report.
Madam Speaker, the committee was concerned that for over one year some Ambassadors posted abroad did not report to their duty stations because of lack of funds. Despite this, on 29.08.2005 the appointing authority yet made new appointments and reshuffled the existing Ambassadors including some of those who had not reported to their stations.
The Committee was also concerned that with in the new appointments only one career diplomat was nominated out of the eight nominees in spite of the fact that there are 13 career diplomats who are due for ambassadorial appointments.
The Budget Committee in May 2005 was also concerned that the funds provided for the repatriation of Foreign Services Officers was grossly inadequate. The committee noted that, the afore mentioned scenarios leave many Foreign Service officers demoralised and frustrated.
The Committee wishes to report that funds for repatriation of Foreign Service officers has remained inadequate and a debt owed to the shippers has remained outstanding to the tune of Ug shs 800 million. The situation has been made worse with the recent reshuffle in the embassies that has now created additional budgetary requirements to repatriate the recalled officials. In this budget only Ug shs 1 billion has been provided for this purpose and yet almost Ug shs 1.6 billion is required.
The Committee recommends that the Ministry of Finance, Planning and Economic Development should find some funds to ensure that the new ambassadorial postings take effect as soon as possible and the repatriation of the Foreign Service officers who are stranded aboard after the expiry of their term is dealt with accordingly. Short of this Madam Speaker, the efficiency of Ministry of Foreign Affairs is greatly hampered.
Contribution to International Organisations:
The committee last financial year was concerned about the lack of Government commitment to honoring subscriptions to international organisations.
The committee wishes to report that the situation has remained the same save only for African Union where Uganda is paid up todate but all others IGAD, COMESA -(Interjection)- Madam Speaker, I know the minister has saluted but the situation is so bad. Even in some instances where we are chairing some of these organisations we get embarrassed; for instance, in the IGAD.
Madam Speaker, composition of the budget on the Ministry of Foreign Affairs: In the committee report last financial year, it was recommended that separate votes should be created for CHOGM and the East African Community to avoid over crowding and misrepresenting vote 006.
The committee is concerned that the situation has remained the same. The current budget for the vote includes the Ug shs 10 billion for CHOGM and Ug shs 5.3 billion for the East African community. Yet the actual allocation of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs headquarters is only Ug shs 1.9 billion.
The committee reiterates its previous recommendation on this matter and further recommends that the obligation to some international organisations that are not solely and directly linked to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs be transferred to the line ministries.
East African Community (EAC):
Fast Tracking Report - the committee noted that the Parliamentarians of Kenya and Tanzania have already received and debated the report on Fast Tracking the East African Federation unlike the Parliament of Uganda that has not. This is a very urgent and important matter of the East African Community.
The committee recommends that His Excellency the President and Government generally show their commitment to the progress of the East African Community integration and carry out related activities promptly. Notably among which is to popularise the East African Community and the recommendations of the Fast Tracking team among the population.
The Minister for East African Community:
The Committee was further concerned that despite the summit's decision to have the partner states appoint a specific Minister for the East African Community, Uganda has not yet done so, yet the President expressed willingness to do so.
Diplomatic passports for members of the East African Legislative Assembly (EALA):
Madam Speaker, the committee observed that Uganda's Members of East African Legislative Assembly do not have diplomatic passports unlike their counterparts from other partner states. Arising from this fact, the Ugandans receive differential treatment when traveling with their counterparts. The committee noted that this is humiliating and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs should rectify the situation.
However, the committee was informed that under the current law, very few people are entitled to diplomatic passports and it excludes members of the East African Legislative Assembly. However Government is in its process of streamlining the list of persons entitled to diplomatic passports because under the present arrangement, this category of passports have been grossly abused.
The committee recommends that members of the East African Legislative Assembly should be included among the persons entitled to diplomatic passports.
Use of Entebbe Airport by MONUC:
Madam Speaker, the committee observed that MONUC has for some time used facilities at Entebbe Airport free of charge yet their operations have subjected the infrastructure to wear and tear. The committee was informed that Government is preparing to negotiate with MONUC to pay a fee for use of the airport and also do some repairs on the runway and other structures that they use.
CHOGM:
Madam Speaker, the committee was concerned that Parliament has not been brought on board yet in relation to the preparations for CHOGM. It was informed that two committees have been put in place to prepare for CHOGM, that is the Cabinet Committee chaired by the Vice President and the technical committee chaired by Ministry of Foreign Affairs.
The committee, however, urged Government to put Parliament on board because it is also a stakeholder in the success of CHOGM.
Madam Speaker, allow me to present Vote 107 - Uganda AIDS Commission (UAC):
For the financial year 2004/05, Uganda AIDS Commission received:
1. Recurrent Expenditure: Ug shs 1,151,000,000 only.
2. Development Expenditure: Ug shs 458,000,000 and from Projects it received Ug shs 1,000,000,000. And it received no supplementary appropriations. It did not; it received none, nil, and nil.
Madam Speaker, so the funds released for Vote 107 - Uganda AIDS Commission, the recurrent expenditure was Ug shs 1,151,000,000 and Development Expenditure was Ug shs 436,000,0000 and from projects and other expenditures it received Ug shs 932,000,000.
I will not list the achievements of the Uganda AIDS Commission because they are many, but I urge the members to take note. But I will briefly talk about plans for this financial year.
Within plans 2005/06, the Uganda AIDS Commission's plans to undertake the following activities:
1. To evaluate the current national strategic framework of 2000/01 to 2005/06 and development of the framework for 2006/07 to 2010/11 to take care of the emerging issues and to provide direction for the national response.
2. It also intends to establish a comprehensive management information system for HIV/AIDS activities building on the mapping exercise.
3. It also intends to strengthen the district coordinating structures
4. It also intends to develop and implement responsive human resource management and development system to support the Uganda AIDS Commission.
5. It also intends to harmonise and align funding and management of resources for HIV/AIDS national response.
6. Intends also to supports and empower HIV/AIDS partnership at national and district levels.
7. To Develop and popularise the operationalisation of the national advocacy strategy.
8. To develop and operationalise appropriate HIV/AIDS research coordination mechanisms and tools
9. To provide overall guidance on communication for HIV/AIDS prevention, care and mitigation interventions.
10. It also intends to popularise and support implementation of a national AIDS policy (NAP).
11. Intends to embark on an annual review of all HIV/AIDS funding mechanisms and report the findings to the National HIV/AIDS partnership forum at the end of November 2005.
12. Advocate for the observance of World Candle Light Day at World AIDS day.
13. Hold the annual HIV/AIDS partnership forum in November 2005 during which UAC will present the National HIV/AIDS statute report 2005.
So the amounts requested here for the recurrent expenditure it is Ug shs 1,320,000,000. For Development Expenditure it is Ug shs 2,095,000,000.
Briefly I will bring the comments and recommendations of the committee:
The committee recommends that the Ministry of Finance, Planning and Economic Development should approve phase II of the CHAI project funds to fight HIV/AIDS contrary to the ministry's position that the approval of the funds should be withheld in order not to distort the economy.
The committee was informed that the following was the recommendation of the Ministry of Finance, Planning and Economic Development that is why that phase II of the CHAI project was withheld. The committee recommends that it should be released.
On the on going sector policies, on the impact of withholding the Global Fund Grant on the operations of the Uganda Aids Commission, the full statement from the Global Fund on the suspension of the five grants to Uganda can be assessed on their website which is www.global fund.com.
But notable in the statement is the fact that drugs will continue to come in the country so that people on treatment will not be affected. The five grants have been suspended and Uganda has been given a deadline of 24th October 2005 to sort out the problem and put all the relevant structures in place.
The committee was informed that the operations of Uganda Aids Commission would not be stalled by the withholding of this fund because there are other sources of funds like the Bush Fund of US$ 129 million and the World Bank Fund and the Uganda Aids Commissions is also in discussion with other donors to secure more funding.
The Uganda Aids Commission, however, notes that it is important to eliminate the bottlenecks of the Global Fund and the Committee concurs with Uganda Aids Commission on its position.
Madam Speaker, I wish to proceed on Vote 135, Mass Mobilisation: The committee noted the previous performance of this sector in the financial year 2004-2005 and it also acknowledges that this sector received Ug shs 6,328,935,000 as recurrent expenditure, Ug shs 184,400,000 for development and it received nothing for the project.
Under supplementary appropriation, it received some money under Vote 001 in the recurrent expenditure it received Ug shs 43,678,427. So in total, amounts released by the Ministry of Finance, Planning and Economic Development totaled to the recurrent expenditure of Ug shs 5,710,533,830 and for development expenditure of Ug Shs 137,573,000 and they did not receive anything for projects.
I will not list the achievements for the financial year but they are there. I want to salute the sector and I go straight to the planned activities for the 2005-2006.
Madam Speaker, constitutionally, the Movement System of government remains in place until after the expiry of five years. Following the yes vote in the 28th July 2005 Referendum, the Movement Secretariat plans to wind up by 30th March 2006. This is legally the time when the majority of contracts for employees of the Movement Secretariat will expire.
The key planned activities for implementing the winding are as follows:
Within the recurrent activities, the national conference and the national executive committee meeting of the Movement are scheduled to take place in February 2006 to implement the decisions arising from the "yes" vote of the July 2005 Referendum.
The Movement Secretariat will remain active in mobilising the people to consolidate their decision, the "yes" vote, to open up political space and manage conflicts that may arise out of the new political dispensation.
The Movement Secretariat plans to build archives for the recruits of the Movement political system in liaison with the relevant Government organs. In liaison with the relevant Government department, the Secretariat will build a framework for a successor institution for national leadership institution.
The Movement Secretariat will continue with the regular maintenance of the infrastructure at NALI until it is handed over to an appropriate ministry or organisation as Cabinet may direct.
Settlement of staff claims and benefits including gratuity arrears begin in September, which is now. Settlement of domestic arrears to trade creditors, it is proposed that payment of extra gratis to staff that would have lost their jobs as a result of winding up start in October 2005.
Madam Speaker, recognising and appreciating in form of certificates or medals to be given to various people towards the political stability of this country under the Movement system, which would begin in October 2005.
The skeleton administrative staff from the traditional civil service will remain behind for at least three months to ensure effective completion of the winding up and to handover the physical assets and records to an appropriate ministry or organisations as cabinet would direct.
So, the amount required for recurrent expenditure Ug shs 11,387,808,000. For development expenditure, it is Ug shs 182,000,000 and for projects and this includes maintenance of the infrastructure at NALI.
The recommendations of the committee include: On mobilization the committee thought clarification on why the Movement Secretariat deems it necessary to consolidate the "yes" vote after the decision has been made. The committee was informed that the Movement cadres who had only been told about the negative aspects of the Multi-Party System were not convinced about the opening of political space in the country and therefore, voted "no", in July 28th Referendum.
The Movement Secretariat showed that the responsibility of convincing these people and the situation has changed and there are safe guards to the negative aspect of the multipartyism for example, the conditions that registered parties must fulfill before the registration is such one safeguard.
Transfer of staff from the Secretariat to other Government departments: The committee was concerned that some staff of the Movement Secretariat are young, well qualified, efficient, yet they are going to loose their jobs prematurely. The Committee recommends that some of the affected staff should be absorbed in other departments of Government where there are vacancies.
The committee was informed that the Secretariat is pursuing the matter with the Public Service Commission with a view to have the affected people compete for available jobs when vacancies arise.
The committee observed that the infrastructure at National Leadership Institute (NALI) has been put in place using public funds and therefore, supports the transfer of the institute to the relevant ministry so that it is put to use preferably as a training institute for national service.
The Committee therefore, supports the secretariats position that funds for maintaining the institute continue to be provided even when the Movement Secretariat winds up.
Madam Speaker, that is the report of the Committee on Presidential and Foreign Affairs and I beg to move that the committee's report be adopted. I beg to move.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you very much chairperson for the presidential and foreign affairs and your committee. I have examined the report, there are seven signatures appended, that is exactly one third of the membership of the committee so it qualifies for debate.
Honourable members, as we indicated, we shall take a short break before we come for debate. So we shall suspend the House until 4.00p.m. But in the meantime, I am delighted to inform you that in the public gallery we have students of St. Margaret Girls Boarding School, Apac District represented by hon. Anang-odur and hon. Betty Amongi. They were here on an educational visit and to watch the proceedings in the House. So you are very welcome.
So, hon. members, the House is suspended until 4.00 O'clock in the afternoon.
(The House was suspended at 2.47 p.m.)
(On resumption a t4.08 p.m._)
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Honourable members, we received this report on presidential and foreign affairs before the break and we are about to start the debate, but I want to just remind hon. members that - I have given you substantive notice - that tomorrow we are going to vote on all the reports and the budget and I must also inform you that if members are not here to vote, I will send the House on recess without passing the budget. So, hon. Members must be here tomorrow from 10.00 a.m., until when we finish.
MR AWORI: Thank you, Madam Speaker, I recall in the morning when we started the business of the day, on the Order Paper there was item number three and we have been anticipating - at the material time when we started the business the relevant minister was not present and we have got no explanation from the Executive branch as to why this major item was omitted?
Not only that, Madam Speaker you recall there was a commitment on the part of the Executive branch that they would come up with a statement to rectify a misunderstanding which was prevailing in the country regarding the TV tax. I hope by now the hon. minister in charge of information is armed and equipped with the relevant material that we sought from him?
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Honourable members, I have a statement from the minister, I agree that it is urgent but I think at this material time it is more important that we finish the budget. I will give him time on the Order Paper tomorrow.
4.11
MR JOHN KIGYAGI (Mbarara Municipality, Mbarara): Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. I just have one observation on the Ministry of Foreign Affairs: I have found that the only single ministry in this country, which works in isolation, is the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. This ministry does not realise that it is represented widely; it has not bothered like other ministries to bring the people they coordinate with in their activities on board.
I will give you an example, if you find RDCs, MPs, LCV chairpersons, CAOs and town clerks sometimes play roles of Ministry of Foreign Affairs in boarder meetings.
I was very surprised that some of us cannot distinguish between an Ambassador and a High Commissioner and they mix the two, now why is all these?
I think what the Minister of Foreign Affairs should do, is to borrow a leaf from other Government ministries and departments, take time off to bring on board partners that they work with, sensitise them on issues like emerging foreign policies, regional relations and international relations so that when people have boarder meetings they know what they can and cannot do.
I do not know why the Ministry of Foreign Affairs has never bothered to know that they are represented by officials at the boarder areas, by many officials who travel and they do not know the country where they are going, what kind of protocol they are supposed to observe? Even issues of protocol, which are supposed to be handled by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, they should begin with these officials RDCs, MPs, LCV chairpersons, CAOs, town clerks and these other officials.
This is the only observation I have and I think the Minister of Foreign Affairs should come on board because we are often embarrassed that is why when we have boarder meetings, some times the Uganda Government gets a raw deal. People do not know what to do, they do not know how to organise, how to deal with foreigners, these simple issues that the Ministry of Foreign Affairs should be able to give to these key officials in this country. I thank you.
4.13
MR GAGAWALA WAMBUZI (Bulamogi county, Kamuli): I thank you, Madam Speaker for giving me some space on this Floor. I must thank your Chair, I thank you in particular and the Speaker for having tolerated me in this House all these years about my district because eventually you dwelt on the Prime Minister who dwelt on the Executive to see that Kaliro became a district. I thank you humbly and also thank all the MPs for having listened and tolerated me in this House about an issue which I thought I had to put it to the Prime Minister so many times.
I am glad that today we are discussing the office of the President. I think the office of the President is doing a good job but the reporting structure from the RDCs should be more transparent so that even MPs know what is being reported. Yes, they are doing a very good job, it is very important that what the President intends to do for the nation should be transparently handled.
But as I said last year, Madam Speaker, the office of the RDC is supposed to be the office of the President in the district. It should be pronounced and it should be treated like that, it is done in Kenya, it is also done in Tanzania, but here we are not yet - even in Rwanda I am told it is being than. That office does not have to be very big but should be pronounced that actually there is a president in charge and when you call there you should be able to complain there.
There is no need Madam Speaker for people to travel from Nawaikoke to the President's office when there is an RDC who should be taking charge of the problem instantly and they are transmitted directly to the office of the President. I hope these RDCs eventually will be connected to the Internet so that really the President is in touch with the cries of the people at the grassroots.
The other point, which I would like to talk about State House, I think this Parliament is entitled to know what building is being constructed as a State House in Entebbe. I think even the committee of works is not aware of what is being done. I think this is an era whereby all of us are supposed to know what is being built, it should not be a secret of anybody, this is a public building, we think is going to be the only building of its type if it is likely even to house the Queen of England when she comes to visit here, then we should all know what is likely to be built.
I think this is an area where we think State House should market itself by showing what the future of the State House should be and telling us so that we know whatever money is being used there.
Everybody should be part and parcel of the State House at least by picture or by dream at night so that young people when they want to become Presidents they will know what is being built for them so that they start studying with force and vigor so that there is something, which is being created.
Office of the -(Interjections)- well I am not so sure about that, but for you if you are in line for it, it is okay, it is okay I did not study to become a President but an engineer.
Madam Speaker, I would like to be protected from hon. Aggrey Awori because he is pulling me down on - the Floor.
The office of the Prime Minister - yes, I think since you have made it now in the amendment of the constitution, we have made it become more established than it has been. I think the vote, which has been given to this office and the way it has been used is clear testimony that there are no complaints from the North in that the big resource, which was sent to the Prime Minister has been used well.
I think we need to vote more so that the resources, which go to the Northern problems, are solved. We must thank the Prime Minister for his performance, and we request him to keep on that track and to keep on cajoling all ministers to be answerable to this House in time.
Madam Speaker, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs is supposed to be our window outside Uganda, therefore, this ministry since they got new offices they must be ready to perform.
We expect our primary school children to be made to understand that the issue our morality and behaviour right from the primary school should be emphasised and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs should be one of those ministries which should teach our young people that Uganda is not an Island; it must relate to other people and it must do what is known.
I think the market of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs to the public of Uganda is really foreign and it is foreign in the heads of all Ugandans. It should become the center stage because if we are going to export, when you grow a pineapple in Gadumire or Nawaikoke, you should grow it knowing very well it is going to be loaded on a plane and sold to a foreign country. So it should not be as foreign as the ministry itself, I think the ministry must mark itself and become more relevant in the eyes of the public of Uganda.
I think the Aids Commission is doing a good job, Madam Speaker; we all need to give it more money for mass mobilisation. I have liked the committee's report we thank you, Madam chairperson of this committee. I think mass mobilisation has been on course for 19 years, it has been on course and, we think they should be given the money they are asking because the job they have done is worthy what they have done. We thank all of them and we should really emphasise that they came they performed and we thanked them for the performance.
Missions Abroad:
Madam Speaker, It is very important that the mission abroad is the business of today and the business of tomorrow. If the money we are voting for the missions' abroad is not enough, then we are in trouble.
Japan has succeeded in conquering the motor industry because of good care of their missions abroad. The missions abroad are supposed to have people who know what the people in those centers can offer the peasants of Uganda. If they did their job properly our export volume to those countries would increase phenomenon.
Even if it were only attracting tourists to come to either Kamuli or Kaliro, just a tourist coming and dropping money to those peasants it would be work well done by those Missions.
At the moment these missions cannot account for the monies we are voting to them, it is very important for them to start feeding with what they are doing to market the interests of Ugandans in those countries out there.
I think the most important thing is, we need markets, these markets are supposed to be conquered by the missions and other people but their primary job as missions should be to help us export commodities and import tourists here so that they leave some money for us. I thank you, Madam Speaker for allowing me the space.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Wambuzi, I am very glad about your opening statement in which you acknowledged that the Speaker and I assisted you to get your district because for a long time you were accused of blocking the district and Members of this House know about it and yet, the Government policy was not to divide districts, but for several years nothing happened. But I am very glad you have said this now openly and please ask your chairman to stop discussing me and concentrate on working for the district.
4.20
MR WILLAM WOPUWA (Bubulo County East, Mbale): Thank you, Madam Speaker. I want to thank the committee for the report.
But I just wanted to make a few observations on page - the report talks about rehabilitating TVs, but for sometime I have complained that in our whole county of Bubulo we watch Kenya Television and last time the minister assured me that he is going to work very hard and boost up Buwalasi so that we can watch television and also be able to pay tax.
But now minus boosting up I do not know whether we shall be able to pay tax for the TVs when we are watching Kenya television.
Two, I also wanted to take this opportunity to seek clarification from the minister, what the fate of our staff of Radio Uganda and Uganda Television is? Many of these people under the new arrangement, when you go there, are redundant and are worried they do not know whether they are still employees of Radio Uganda or Uganda Television, what is their fate?
Lastly, Madam Speaker, I wanted to take this opportunity to thank the President and Government for nominating Mr Wagidoso as our Ambassador. But we were also wondering what has happened to the one who was in New Delhi because it would be better if they were two than having one?
Lastly, Madam Speaker, we have a lot of equipment at Radio Uganda, there is big mast I am told a lot of money was used as it was being installed but currently, for over three years it is just there. It was brought as a project to promote HIV sensitisation but currently it is just there.
I wanted to seek clarification from the minister: What about all these that have been in that project. Can it be made more useful so that people can benefit from it instead of being redundant in front of Radio Uganda? Thank you Madam Speaker.
4.24
MR KULE MURANGA (Busongora County North, Kasese): Thank you, Madam Speaker. I have three concerns: One is that we have so many RDCs in our country and most of them are not facilitated, you find an RDC with a vehicle without fuel and he cannot move around to see what is happening and yet he is supposed to stand in for the President so that the district moves on.
Number two, Kasese and other Rwenzori areas are supposed to be under Luweero Triangle reason being, in 1985, NRA soldiers were in Rwenzori and we helped them a lot - yes. ADF came in the following years, they also made us what we are.
Now since the Luweero Triangle covers about 16 districts, we want to know what has Government done for us as people who have been in Luweero Triangle and have suffered through several wars. Yet our IDPs were not helped, all those problems have never been solved.
Even in Kasese, there are so many people who suffered through land mines, even areas were mined and up to now they have never been demined so as to make it safe for people to move around. So we would like to know what the Government has in store for such people.
Lastly, our TV coverage is not yet on board. The whole of the Rwenzori Region does not have TV coverage. So we want to know from the Ministry of Information when our people are likely to gain from this facility before we even pay the taxes, which have been talked about. These are the few concerns I would like to bring across. Thank you, Madam Speaker.
4.27
MR MICAH LOLEM (Upe County, Nakapiripirit): Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. I will just go straight to page 16, concerning presidential pledges.
Madam Speaker, you will recall in the 6th Parliament, I was still a professional teacher. But I remember when hon. Chrispus Kiyonga was in my constituency with hon. Omony Ojok, fundraising for a secondary school and there was a pledge of one million shillings by the President, but up to today, they have not paid. So I just want to remind the committee and whoever to take action on the one million shillings to the poor communities in Karamoja.
Then I just go straight on NUSAF. I want to thank the Prime Minister's office for the job well done on the issue of NUSAF. NUSAF, that is a Community Development Initiative, did a very good job in Karamoja, most especially in my constituency.
I have got 62,000 people in my constituency. They could share three boreholes with domestic and wild animals. But when NUSAF came, I have now achieved; I got 11 boreholes from NUSAF, which is at least a very important thing. But now when I see the committee saying that, the Committee therefore recommends that 75 percent of the fund should be channeled through vulnerable groups, I still prefer let us balance also the community development initiatives, take a half and also the vulnerable takes a half.
If you take the statistics especially in Karamoja, you will find over 25,000 people without even a health centre. They travel 75 kilometers for treatment from a health centre. So I feel if they will balance this for the Community Development Initiatives to come in. The vulnerable takes either 55 percent and then the Community Development Initiatives takes 45 percent so that we also come in to solve this issue of diseases in Karamoja.
Madam Speaker, the other one is on the Karamoja question. The Committee in 2004 recommended that the Karamoja Development Agency to be repealed because it was inactive. But when you check the recommendation today, they are saying that Karamoja Development Agency should replace KPIU. You know in Karamoja, KPIU has done a very great job. As I was growing up, I used to hear somebody called, KDA, but I have never seen any activity of KDA done.
MRS ZZIWA: I wish to clarify to hon. Lolem because the recommendation was on the scrapping of the KDA Statute which had been brought here in the House and had been passed to establish the KDA, is what was being recommended because KDA was no longer functional.
But when the Minister in Charge of Karamoja Affairs came, he said the people of Karamoja still like the name because KDA is Karamoja Development Agency. They still like the name. They said that despite the fact that the function of KDA is no longer active, there is the Karamoja Project Implementation Unit, which acts, but not within the statute, it acts separately.
So the recommendation is, let the activities of Karamoja Implementation Unit be amalgamated into the authority or armpit of KDA in order to have the KDA retain that name because the Karimojong people want to have the KDA.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: But hon. chairperson, I think his problem is that two years ago, you said you should repeal that law and then that thing died, okay that is what you recommended two years ago. But now you are saying that let it receive the money. I think that is what his problem is.
4.34
MR PETER LOKERIS (Chekwii County, Moroto): Thank you, Madam Speaker. The genesis of KDA was that it should receive and mobilise funds from everywhere in order to develop Karamoja soonest.
But when it came into being as an Act of Parliament, after passing it, money was injected by Government and by the European Union.
During the time of evaluation and monitoring, it was discovered that it did not do a good job. So the European Union did withdraw and we were only left with a skeleton staff being financed by the Government.
Now there was a recommendation to say, do we have to remove this Act so that KDA is no longer established and just forget it?
But Madam Speaker, Uganda at times is called a corrupt country. Being corrupt, it is not the country by name, which is corrupt; they are the people who are corrupt. We only need to remove those and Uganda remains.
So even us, we also say, Karamoja Agency is not itself a bad name. What we need to do is to find out about the functionaries who are corrupt by restructuring to remove them and then KPIU which was negotiated by then the offices of OPM to carry out the activities of KDA which was not very functional, which was disliked, was instituted.
He is doing a very good job, by removing other people. We can amalgamate these people so that we use the Statute name to continue with their functions, and let the other people go. Otherwise, KPIU is a baby of OPM and their Act is a creation of Parliament, which should be maintained. So, Karamoja people say that they want the name to continue. Those who were messing up with the name can go away and the rest continue. This is the recommendation, which I wish to give to the hon. Member of Parliament from Pokot. Thank you.
MR LOLEM MICAH: Madam Speaker, we need tangible things. I am very proud of KPIU, the only secondary school that my people have is a result of KPIU. KPIU has given me four classroom blocks. This year they have constructed two dormitories, one for girls and one for boys. So that is why I want projects, which are known to do some good work. But KDA, I only hear the name but I have never seen even a stone built by them.
So I request the Office of the Prime Minister not to change KPIU because even when rotten eggs come inside, when you throw a fish into water all the water gets spoiled and the fish, which is live in that water tends to get spoilt with the water. What has KDA done? I have not seen anything.
Therefore, I want KPIU to keep up the good work because there are plans ahead for KPIU in Karamoja. They should also focus on laboratories. Our secondary schools do not have science laboratories, but I hope in future, if KPIU is still there, under the European Union we shall have laboratories. So this issue of KDA I think somebody turned it the other side.
But my point is that let us put a pledge to the right. If it is a pledge, we give a pledge to the people because tomorrow when one moves around, one should not get questions like: "What happened to the other thing?" We should fulfil our roles so that when somebody moves on a very good bicycle, they can ride smoothly without any blocking or murram. Let them say that in the past there was murram and the truck did not move correctly. So if these pledges are fulfilled, the tarmac will be very smooth and things will go well.
Otherwise, Madam Speaker, I thank the committee of Mrs Margaret Zziwa, for the job well done and I thank the Prime Minister's office for NUSAF programme in my constituency. They have given me 11 boreholes, the Ministry of Works has failed to give me even one, but I thank Ms Grace Akello and the Prime Minister for the job you have done for my constituency. Thank you very much.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Lolem, I am very happy for you. You were a very angry man last year around this time when we were discussing the Budget. So we must thank the Government for responding; I think something has been done in your area.
4.37
REV. KEFA SSEMPANGI (Ntenjeru County South, Kayunga): Thank you, Madam Speaker. When hon. Zziwa was reading the report I was very impressed that women chairpersons in this Parliament are doing a good job. I am not saying that the male chairpersons are doing a good job, but I am very much impressed with the women.
The committee's report does recommend the procurement of studio equipment for the radio, satellites and so on but when you go to our national radio station, the furniture is in bad shape and the offices need serious renovation. I do not know whether the committee has been able to visit these premises. If you go for a recording you find that the chairs are not presentable. As for the carpets, you do not know whether it was originally red or blue. So these are things that need serious renovations to make the radio and television really national assets.
When you go to these FM stations you really feel proud: the chairs are presentable and the equipment is too but as for our national assets, some work needs to be done. I understand the minister will be coming up with a statement on this television tax. When I was in the constituency I was puzzled because some members were coming with a question, "What if I have a television set, which I am not using, am I supposed to pay tax for it?" I did not have any answer but I hope that when the minister comes with his statement and he will make this matter clear.
Another issue is that I remember some weeks ago some members came with complaints about the misuse of government property, and government vehicles in particular. Just two days ago - I wanted to stop by the way and take down the registration number of this car - I saw a government vehicle carrying charcoal and it was really overloaded. I wish the Government officers respect these vehicles -(Interjections)- I am talking about the one I saw.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Honourable members do not heckle him. I think we have forgotten what we agreed upon; you are supposed to ask questions only, not to make submissions.
REV. SSEMPANGI: Madam Speaker, I appreciate your guidance and I am only raising a point of clarification. There was someone who mentioned something about the Prime Minister's office. I want to raise the same issue to the committee. Have they been to the Prime Minister's office and checked whether the building does not need face lifting? I do not know whether the committee wishes the Prime Minister to reside in an office, which is not better than what it is now?
Finally, I have stood on this Floor before with regard to the issue of children who are night commuters, especially in Gulu. Since I raised that question I am told that not much has changed, and I agree with the committee that our NGO board has no capacity to do the monitoring. I want to suggest that we let the Office of the Prime Minister set up a co-ordinating committee for these NGOs operating in the North. I know the NGOs have done tremendous work, but I do not know whether it makes an impact on the night commuters.
One time we were visiting Gulu and I saw a child with books torn due to the rain. I am wondering whether some NGOs would not help to provide school bags or highly protective bed sheets and blankets. It is still embarrassing that despite the money, which we read about so many times in the papers going to the North, these children, the night commuters, do not have facilities better than what they have today. They carry mats at night to go and sleep. They go to school and do not have lunch.
You can imagine a child suffering that much. I think we should pay more attention because these are children suffering and they are part of Uganda. I appreciate if something would be done to co-ordinate the NGOs and probably the Government to make contributions towards this end. Thank you, Madam Speaker.
4.44
PROF VICTORIA MWAKA (Woman Representative, Luweero): Thank you very much, Madam Speaker, and I want to thank the chairperson for the good report. My first question concerns the Vice-President's efforts to increase household incomes and I appreciate the effort because definitely there is more rice on the market.
However, I have observed some negative developments, and that is environmental degradation. Forests are indiscriminately cleared, swamps are being cleared and rivers are actually drying out. Papyrus swamps have been cleared too. My question is, is there a linkage between the Vice-President's office with regard to upland rice production, and the Ministry of Agriculture and Ministry of Lands, Water and Natural Resources and Wetlands? If that is not so, we will face the problem of ecological imbalances. Sooner or later underground reserves are going to dry up. Actually there is a complaint that boreholes are drying out. So, may I know if there is a linkage and do you really see that the work done is done properly?
Secondly, on page 16 on the issue of State House officials representing the President, there is an explanation that they go there in their individual capacities. My question is: where do they get the funds and the money they donate in the name of the President? Are they impersonating the president or they go in their own right? If so, then they must be very rich because one goes with a cheque of Shs 20 million in his own capacity to donate to the population! We need more explanation whether they are not sent.
Thirdly, on the Office of the Prime Minister with regard to disaster management; with due respect there has been over concentration on the areas, which are afflicted by war, conflict and violence. But there are other disasters, which you are overlooking. For example floods and droughts, but I will concentrate on the floods.
To date children are being swept away by waters, for example here in Bwaise and many other places in Entebbe. One time a man was swept away. We always concentrate on disaster management but why not disaster mitigation? Prevention is better than cure, spending money by giving people handouts, give them iron sheets, looking for jobs, when actually that can be easily stopped. So my question is, do we have a programme for real disaster preparedness, while we include other disasters like Cholera?
My fourth point is the issue of Luweero Triangle strategic restocking. May I know whether there is surveillance and monitoring of the performance of that programme? Do we know the number of cows now, which have? What is the multiplier effect of that programme? My observation is that most of those cows are no longer - therefore, I need to be corrected. Have we done enough surveillance to see that those programmes are moving properly, because it may end up like the Entandikwa Scheme?
Lastly, I want to comment on the Global Fund and the Uganda AIDS Commission. Will funds in the commission not be misused or will it not affect the performance of the AIDS prevention programme because they are saying that there are no resources available? My friends, I smell a rat. This may be an eye opener to other donors to start doing similar investigations without the knowledge of government.
So, can we know whether the Government is proposing to put something in place to strengthen surveillance and monitoring, which is inbuilt within the system so that by the time the project comes to an end we know where we are standing? Otherwise, we may face similar embarrassments when more is dug out that bad things are happening. So, may I know what the Ministry of Health and all other ministries, perhaps through the Prime Minister, whether you intend to put something in place to strengthen the monitoring so that this kind of embarrassment does not reoccur? Thank you very much, Madam Speaker.
4.50
MR OTHMAN ALONGA (Aringa County, Yumbe): I want to thank the committee for this report. It is a very nice report and in a very special way I want to thank the chairperson for her eloquent and logical presentation of this huge report.
When President Museveni travelled to Yei for the burial of the late Lt Gen. Garang, we saw so many vehicles of the presidential convoy having mechanical problems on the way, all the way from Pakwach up to maybe perhaps Yei. The question is, how sound are the vehicles in the presidential convey? Are they new or have they been there for sometime? How safe is the President?
For RDCs, yes, I do agree with the rest that RDCs do very good job but are poorly equipped. My RDC for Yumbe says that he has never had transport. Maybe he left it where he was in Apac. The man has no transport, even when you talk of border meetings, he can hardly travel. When is he and others going to get transport for easing their work?
On the border meetings, these border meetings are good. They solve so many problems but I think we must try to involve the MPs as much as possible. I know MPs from the Eastern region were involved, but some of us were not involved in the border meetings initiated between Uganda and Sudan and so on. So, when are we going to be fully involved?
When government signed an agreement with UNLF in December 2002, with Gen. Moses Bamuze, one of the clauses was that government, in conjunction with UNRF II, would organize a donor's conference or development conference to construct West Nile. The time limit was four months after the time of signing the agreement but up to now this donor's conference has not been organized. When is it going to be organized? And I understand that the Prime Minister's office was supposed to take it over and liaise with the rest and then organize this donor's conference. So, when is it going to be organized?
With regard to NUSAF, it has done a very good job. It has actually raised our safe water coverage from 22 percent to 32 percent. That was a very good job and I also do appreciate the committee's recommendation that we should now concentrate more on vulnerable group, ON VGSs than CDIs, but I think this will differ from one district to another. So I do not think we should make a ruling to move 75 percent to the vulnerable groups, projects and so on. Let us leave it to the districts but we should try as much as possible to have both projects, CDIs and VGSs.
Finally, Madam Speaker, I want to comment on the issue of renovation of the upcountry presidential lodges. Yes, some of them are in a very bad state but we should construct new ones in the new districts or resolve that the President will not visit some of these districts; that he will stay say only in Arua instead of going to Yumbe and spend a night there as well because we do not have infrastructure there. When are we going to construct some new presidential lodges, we need the same?
And on Ministry of Foreign Affairs, one of its issues of mandate is to look for employment opportunities for Ugandans abroad and recently we have been hearing rumours that one Member of Parliament from Mbale came with opportunities from either Japan or whatever and that people were rushing to go and collect forms to going for kyeyo in Japan or Pakistan. One of the Members from Mbale is doing that. Is the ministry aware that there are such opportunities in Japan for employment to Ugandans? Thank you, Madam Speaker.
4.55
MR ODONGA OTTO (Aruu County, Pader): Madam Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity. I have five questions.
One, can the minister or the chairperson of the committee tell us the percentage distribution of career diplomats versus political diplomats? Last week when you reshuffled some of our colleagues were at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. They said that most of the staff were so disgusted and left office by 2.00 p.m. because people think that they are to be typists forever while others are to board planes. So, can they tell us clearly what the percentage distribution of career diplomats versus political diplomats is and what chances do those who have worked in office for say 15 years have to get into the diplomatic world?
Besides, Ambassador Okello and Ambassador Napeyok; Ambassador Okello was appointed to Kinshasa but up to today he has not gone. In fact he has even been changed, he has not left the country but he is here without a salary. Why would you raise people's hopes and you make them become domestic dignitaries without going to the station where they are supposed to be? What do you think they would tell their families? In fact they can turn out to be conmen around town. Napeyok was posted to Moscow. Before he went he had been transferred to Paris. Why do you mention people's names if you know that you do not have means of taking them there? So, can you clarify on this matter?
Point No. 2, in the policy statement on page 50, they explain how they intend to maintain Uganda's image abroad and they give four points. One is to keep contact with the press through interviews and writing topical issues. Two is to arrange and encourage exchange visits like of Presidents and other officials. Three is to promote cultural exchange and four is to carry out sensitisation tours by foreign journalists to Uganda.
This was the ministry's policy statement on how to maintain Uganda's image abroad. Now I am wondering: this Shs 1.2 billion given to a firm where Kutesa's daughter works, where does it come from? It does not appear in the policy statement that the Uganda Government would go ahead to contract firms to improve Uganda's image abroad. This Shs 1.2 billion, which appears in all media and it is alleged that one of Minister Kutesa's daughters is involved in it, may we be clarified on how it comes vis-à-vis the policy statement that has been laid before Parliament?
MR KABAREEBE: Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. The allegation is overwhelming. Shs 1.2 billion to a firm where the Minister's daughter works! So it is a situation, which alarms the public and yet he continues to say that this figure is not even in the policy statement. Can he clarify to us, where did he get the figures?
MR ODONGA OTTO: You know it is also - but it is not very easy to talk at times. Madam Speaker, it was clearly in all the media houses but the principle issue I am asking about is how has government started hiring firms to improve their image abroad, which is not one of the ingredients they listed here in the policy statement?
And, just related to what I call privatisation of diplomacy, I happened to be in Sweden a while ago. I wanted a visa to go to Bangladesh so I wanted to use the mission in Sweden. When I got there I found a Ugandan being charged about 100 Swedish Krona, so I waited and when she came to me she said, "How fast do you need a visa?" Then she said, "You have to give me about 100 Swedish Krona." That is about Shs 350,000.
Is the ministry aware that people are bribing to get visas? Ugandans abroad are bribing embassy officials to get visas at a fee slightly higher than the official rate. Are we aware of that practice and if so, what is the ministry doing to ensure that our nationals abroad can pay the standard visa fee other than bribing those officials at the embassy in what I would prefer to call privatisation of diplomacy?
On the point of NGOs on page 23, the committee recommends that there is need for a mother NGO to monitor all NGOs operating in Northern Uganda. I happen to be the Secretary-General of Acholi Parliamentary Group. We have seen so many NGOs, so many fundraisings being carried out in Kampala in the name of Northern Uganda and the money does not even cross the Nile.
All these musicians launching their shows in the National Theatre, even the goat race that they were acclaiming in Munyonyo, they all say that the money is going to Northern Uganda, but the money does not reach. There was even a fundraising carried by out the First Lady. I am not saying that the money did not reach, but I am saying that we do not know whether it reached. (Laughter) So, could the minister -(Interruption)
THE MINISTER OF STATE, ETHICS AND INTEGRITY (Mr Tim Lwanga): Thank you, Madam Speaker. Many times we make statements in this Parliament and some of these statements are made carelessly. A person comes to Parliament and says that there was a fundraising, the First Lady was responsible for this fundraising and they do not even know whether the money reached. I want clarification from the honourable member, hon. Otto, could you please tell this House specifically what money was raised and when it was raised and by which organization that was headed by the First Lady? Thank you.
THE MINISTER OF STATE, NORTHERN UGANDA (Ms Grace Akello): Thank you, Madam Speaker, and I want to thank hon. Otto for giving way. I wanted to say that in the case of the First Lady, I know of one fundraising, which she carried out and the money was used to buy Shs 13 million worth of seed, which is for planting food in Northern Uganda. That was delivered and the LC V chairpersons and the RDCs of Northern Uganda, especially the Acholi and Lango sub-regions, were called to come and collect the seed and take it. That I know for sure, but I must say that I sympathise with what hon. Odonga Otto is saying because there have been so many fundraising here, which are done and the Minister of Northern is not even informed.
MR ODONGA OTTO: Madam Speaker, I want to thank the First Lady for having made a contribution of Shs 13 million in form of seed for the plight of the people in Northern Uganda. But as a principle I think the Minister in Charge of Northern Uganda should really come out with general guidelines in terms of those who want to carry out fundraisings so that even the Police is informed. In fact the Acholi Parliamentary Group is issuing a letter next week warning those masquerading in Kampala in the name of Northern Uganda to stop it. Some of the Northern Ugandans even end up in pork joints and bars after the shows. I think it is not good to add insult to injury.
Lastly, I would like to talk about NUSAF. We have written to the minister to give us all the documents from inception to date and fortunately we have not finished our analysis, but I want to say that there are some grey areas, which are already appearing in our preliminary survey. The ex-LRA rebels, who are returning, it has been widely published in the media that NUSAF money is being given to them, which is not part of the criteria. Hon. Lule must be talking of the same.
For example, it was clear in the media that one LRA commander who came out got Shs 400 million all to himself. If we politicians start dumping our hands deep into the circle of NUSAF and picking money and awarding people, NUSAF will turn out to be a "Global Fund" by the end the programme.
There was even a newspaper report that the World Bank is intending to withhold funding for NUSAF because people are not accounting for it. I have been encouraging people in my constituency, they collect the first phase of the money, the second phase and then they cannot account yet the third phase is tied to the second one. So, I appeal to the Minister in charge of Northern Uganda to carry out massive sensitisation, even over the radio, to tell people that if you think what you got is enough, you may not get the last bunch because the programme cannot be complete without all the money being given back.
Many people have been told that, "If you are not in the Movement, you will not get NUSAF funds." This is very common in Pader. In fact I went up to Aweri sub-county. I found all my people had temporarily crossed over because of NUSAF money, until I lectured them then they came because I was giving them these policy statements.
Madam Speaker, I respect your work but there are people who are doing excessive work, these local councillors, they are over politicising the NUSAF funds and I have written to you of cases of bribery. For example, the councillor for Aweri sub-county, Bilgram, has been collecting Shs 50,000 per proposal. In fact he is very busy in the village collecting money and saying that, "If you want your proposal to be approved, give me Shs 50,000."
So, he is also making his money in that way. Madam Speaker, I thank you for this opportunity and on Thursday when I was going to Pader, the President was going to Gulu. I met him around Mijera and the speed at which that convoy passed me, for heaven's sake it is not safe for a head of state to drive that fast.
This is a serious matter and I pledged to come and raise this matter in Parliament. I do not know if this is the right forum, but it is very dangerous to see close to 30 vehicles driving away at 170 kilometres per hour. Honestly speaking, if the President is in a hurry, we need to consider the issue of the helicopter urgently because we also want to see a President being defeated in an election. We do not want to just say that someone died in an accident. So, the chairperson of the committee would help to clarify on this. Thank you very much for the opportunity.
5.07
MR ELIJAH OKUPA (Kasilo County, Soroti): Thank you Madam Speaker. I have a few issues to raise to the Prime Minister, the chairperson of the committee, and the Minister for Foreign Affairs.
We have talked a lot about the image of Uganda abroad. The image of Uganda takes different fronts, but I want to dwell on this issue of the outstanding arrears for the international bodies to which Uganda belongs or is a signatory. It stands now at more than US $10 million. It is a shame to the country.
What image do we portray as a country, a country that is not able to subscribe to the organization it does not belong to! It is even surprising that IGAD where Uganda is the chairperson, we still default. I think there is need for seriousness and we need to help the Minister of Foreign Affairs so much.
As for the Ministry of Finance, unfortunately I do not see any here, hon. Prime Minister, I hope you will take this very seriously if we are to continue walking with our heads up. I am happy that you cleared for AU because our Members of Parliament were getting embarrassed. We were even failing to get elected into committees in the AU. Please, can you have that spirit extended to IGAD and other bodies and have these arrears cleared? We are even planning for the CHOGUM. If we are indebted like this, I hope by that time we would have been able to clear all these arrears.
Madam Speaker, the other issue is the issue of our Members of Parliament for the East African Community. The chairperson did say here that there was a request that they should be moved to the Parliamentary Commission's Vote. I support it. Then the chairperson said that he was still consulting, but there is no need for consulting. Now is the time. We either decide here or not. But as for me, let the money be moved to Parliament and let it be paid from this Parliament.
On the issue of the ambassadors, it is a shame that members who were recalled have not reported back here. It is over one year now and we are appointing more and the Budget is not provided for because these ambassadors' appointment came when this was not provided, because we even have arrears of Shs 1.6 billion as the chairperson has said. So, are we going to see this newly appointed group fail to go to the stations as the other two failed to report: Okello and Nyapio? Can this money be provided so that these other colleagues who are suffering psychologically can come back and find ways of surviving?
I also want to appeal to those like Okello and Nyapio, who had been there, can the Government at least pay them the salary, even if they have not posted them? Because it is very embarrassing, they cannot look for jobs, they cannot do odd jobs because they are ambassadors. How are they going to survive, how do they support their families? I think we need to save them the embarrassment.
Another thing, I want to get clarification from Foreign Affairs. In their report they did say that they were able to secure 1,500 scholarships last financial year. Could we know in which disciplines? And what is the criterion, how can we get to know about these scholarships? We need clarification on the criteria and in which fields we are benefiting from?
Another matter is on the Minister of Information about the issue of tax. The people of Kasilo do not receive UTV yet they own TVs and they used to use them to watch movies. How are they going to pay tax, for what service? We are not receiving WBS, the signal is not there. How can we be able to pay? In fact I have told them not to pay.
There was also another issue in the secretariat about the mobilisers who were claiming that they were not paid. What is the fate of those people? Can we get clarification from the NPC? What has happened to those mobilisers, have they been paid or not?
There was another issue, which I raised last time, about people fleecing money from others in the President's office in a pretext that they are offering jobs and yet they are busy extorting money from people. Can I hear from the Prime Minister or the Minister for the Presidency on this matter? People have suffered a lot. They have been reporting to us that their money is being extorted from them. When you go there they say, "Bring Shs 100,000. Next time you go they say, "Add another amount of money." Why don't you use Foreign Affairs? Can we get clarification please, what is the fate of these people?
Last but not least, on NUSAF, some time this year about April I informed the Minister in charge of Northern Uganda that there were problems of NUSAF in Kasilo County and I requested her to go there with me. Unfortunately, for reasons I do not know, she decided to go alone but the reports I got from there were not comfortable. I will not mention them here but hon. Prime Minister, I think we need to work hand in hand -(Interruption)
MR ODONGA OTTO: Just a little information on those who are extorting money, claiming to be from the President's Office. Even several Members of Parliament have lost huge sums of money by those who claim that they are coming from the President's office and they can make them ministers. They go to Sheraton, get half a million, for example hon. Bernard Mulengani has really suffered in this case.
MR MULENGANI: Point of order, Madam Speaker, on the statement that hon. Odonga Otto has raised as it is really a serious allegation against me. Is he in order to insinuate that I have lost monies in the millions, lump some of money, bribing people from President's Office in search of a ministry?
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Otto Odonga can you tell us which day and which person he was with and when these things occurred?
MR ODONGA OTTO: Madam Speaker, I was just trying to show the House hon. Mulengani Bernard is capable of being a minister.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Odonga Otto I appreciate your friendship with hon. Bernard Mulengani but the way you said it appeared as if he is prepared to bride in order to become a minister. So, please withdraw it. I know you want him to be a minister but please, withdraw.
MR ODONGA OTTO: I have withdrawn, Madam Speaker.
MR OKUPA: Finally, let me comment on the conduct of the PGB. Whenever the President is going on a visit or is going to attend a function - we had a very obscene scene on Saturday at All Saints Church, there were a number of weddings to which we were invited. By morning the PGB had taken over the place. The bride and groom were made to walk from the State House junction. All the weddings were disrupted. It was so embarrassing. People were almost fighting.
People have organized for so many years to have a good time on their wedding day then they are told to foot 80 to 100 meters to reach the Church! People were being checked left and right. A quarrel ensued, in fact it was so embarrassing, it reached to a level where the clergy had to come and say, "We are the people who are praying for you and you are here harassing us -(Interruption)
MR PETER LOKERIS: Madam Speaker, I am seeking clarification from the speaker on the Floor as to whether the President gate crashed to go there or the bride and groom invited him so that they were very anxious to see him? You clarify, please.
CAPT. MATOVU: Thank you colleague for giving way. I am not a spokesperson of PGB but colleagues will bear me witness for those of you who have attended most of these functions. Maybe those soldiers were new and newly recruited to the PGB but sincerely those boys have reputable discipline.
However, I want to give you an example and I think where matters of security of the head of state are concerned, the fountain of honour, we should bear some situations much as we enjoy some privileges as Members of Parliament. The other day Development Associates invited us as Members of the HIV/AIDS Committee. Our names were booked in first, the list then continued on, and we as members had a bus. I can assure you that what we went through in that place, I could not believe it.
We were just going to meet a few Development Associates from USAID but we were checked, lined up on the road, yet our names were there. The committee clerk of Parliament was there to identify us. So, really much as we enjoy some privileges here, we should not over play around with matters of security. If this President was injured, you can imagine what can happen to this country, especially at this time.
But I want to say that these boys have really done their part and they are well disciplined. It is only those - I don't want to imagine that hon. Okupa Elijah is one of them who make their lives difficult, otherwise, they are exemplary and we should thank them for the good job.
MS KIRASO: On Saturday I attended one of the weddings at All Saints Church. I think the hon. Minister in charge of Karamoja misunderstood what hon. Okupa Elijah was talking about. The President went to attend a 4.00 O'clock wedding but if you are not conversant with All Saints Church, there are weddings almost every hour from morning. Actually there were weddings from 11.00 a.m.
So, there was a wedding at 11.00 a.m., at 12.00, at 1.00, 2.00 until 4 O'clock when the President was coming to attend that wedding. But the people who suffered, whom he is talking, about are not the people who had invited the President for their wedding at 4.00 p.m. The bride and bride groom that were made to walk, I do not know which wedding he attended, but I attended the wedding at 12.00, where the bride and the bride grooms' Benz was stopped down at the road and they had to foot. Can you imagine that being your best day, you are in your best dress, in high heels, you are a Mugole and you are made to walk? So something should be done about that kind of security.
MR MWANDHA: Madam Speaker, I personally witnessed the wedding of a relative of mine almost getting ruined because apparently one members of the first family was going to use All Saints Church some three hours ahead, and the Church was a normal place for anybody including people who had made arrangements to have a wedding on that day. Can you imagine? Y
ou book a date and time not knowing that the President or his family are going to use the Church and, therefore, you are going to endanger their lives so you work on that kind of basis and crucial moment. I quite appreciate what he is saying; we cannot play with the security of a head of state, but I think the system must be such that the ordinary mortals should not be inconvenienced to that extent that the girl broke down in tears. Somebody telephoned me; I went there and said, "What is the problem?" My God, if I had not put a fight that wedding would probably never have taken place. So, surely this is the matter, which needs attention. Thank you.
MR AWORI: Thank you, Madam Speaker. I just want to assist my honourable Colleague, and my neighbour here who seems to over zealously support the PGB. Some of us are familiar with the presidential security. Definitely, you do not be over zealous - I have seen at the airport where from time to time I have even advised them that, "If a diplomat is coming, please, do not pull him out of the car to go through the machine, and you should know a diplomat car has got such numbers." When we get to the VIP lounge, I always say that, "For somebody to come to the VIP lounge, it must be somebody of certain status so, do not subject him to this kind of cruelty."
We had a problem at the CPA Munyonyo one time when we had the Lady Speaker from the British House of Commons was subjected to such cruelty that I had to intervene. I had to step in and tell the PGB, "Look, do not do that. This is our guest of honour." And when your own colleague, Madam Speaker, hon. Ssekandi came, they wanted to subject him to the same cruelty. I had to step in and said, "This is your host here, you should know the Speaker. You cannot subject the Speaker to what you call body search. This is a conference organized by Parliament and the head of Parliament is called the Speaker and the Speaker is that gentleman you want to subject to this kind of body search. Please, take note."
As a Member of that committee, we have had opportunity of meeting the head of PGB and put him through these concerns of Members of Parliament. Some of us by virtue of our whatever, they do not subject us to that but what my colleague is saying really, nobody should exceed the limits of courtesy, common courtesy demands that you do not subject the Speaker of the House of Parliament to that kind of body search.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Even the Deputy Speaker. (Laughter)
MR OKUPA: Madam Speaker, hon. Lokeris jumped in before I could complete my submission, but I wonder whether he has ever wedded, whether he has ever gone to Church!
Two, by virtue of his position he should be well aware that the President does not gatecrash. So, it was a shame for the honourable minister to say the President gate crashed. Can the President gatecrash? He cannot. This is not cattle rustling. Madam Speaker -(Interruption)
MR PETER LOKERIS: Thank you, Madam Speaker. Is it in order for hon. Okupa, who is many years younger than me to think that I am not wedded, when I have children who are as big as him? (Laughter)
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Honourable member, unfortunately I was not invited to your wedding so I do not know whether you wedded. (Laughter) But Members, let us not get personal.
MR OKUPA: Thank you, Madam Speaker for that wise ruling. But at least I know having children does not mean that you have wedded. I have not also seen the ring; I wish he had shown his hand so we could see whether there was a ring on it. It is sad, probably we would have proved whether he wedded or not.
I was putting forward the problem that happened on that day. The President was supposed to attend the 4.00 p.m. wedding, but for us who went there much earlier we were subjected to all sorts of things. It was even embarrassing that after the President's chair had been brought, when the President's convoy came and saw the scuffle, the chair was withdrawn and the President diverted his convoy and went away so he did not attend. We do not want to fall into such embarrassments.
There has been a problem within All Saints church. Their land was grabbed; part of the land of the Church was taken by State House on allegations of security. So, it is very important, possibly if we could look for a budget for providing a presidential church, just like King Louis XIV did. Possibly if that is the case then we shall be able to approve without any problems here. Thank you, Madam Speaker.
5.28
MR JOHN KAWANGA (Masaka Municipality, Masaka): Thank you, Madam Speaker. I thank the committee for the report but I have specific questions arising out of it. The committee is virtually recommending the scrapping of the Ministry for Luweero Triangle. It seems they think that it is no longer useful but I would specifically want to know, because Masaka is one of the districts in the Luweero Triangle, what has been specifically done for the benefit of Masaka District as part of the Luweero Triangle, before you scrap this ministry?
The second question is about mass mobilization. It appears mass mobilization has been only taken for political reasons, and I think for 20 years you have been subjected to mass mobilization. Can't mass mobilization be used for economic activities? Especially this stage where Uganda is, can we not re-channel this mobilization for economic development before you think about scrapping it?
MR MUSUMBA: Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. I need to be guided. Hon. Kawanga has just raised the issue that was raised in the report. The effect of the recommendation is that the ministry be scrapped and my question, even before we go into the substance, is from the legal perspective.
Under Article 114(4), there is a sub-article that I need to refer to; the President is mandated to create ministries. It says; "A Minister referred to in this Article shall have responsibility for such functions of the ministry to which he or she is appointed, as the President may from time to time assign to him or her; and in the absence of the Cabinet Minister in his or her Ministry, shall perform the functions of the Cabinet Minister as the President directs."
A reading of the entire Article 114 and the Articles relevant to the establishment of Cabinet reveal that the power to establish ministries and assign ministers to those ministries is the exclusive mandate of the President. I am, therefore, wondering whether we as a Parliament can sit here and fetter the discretion of the President as enshrined in the Constitution to assign ministers to ministries. To that effect I am therefore wondering whether this House can legitimately entertain a recommendation of that nature and if that recommendation is adopted, what is its effect? I seek to be guided, Madam Speaker.
MS KIRASO: Madam Speaker, the honourable minister started from 114(4). I wish to draw his attention to 114(1), "The President may, with the approval of Parliament, appoint other ministers to assist Cabinet Ministers in performance of their function."
This means that if Parliament approves, it can also withdraw its approval or it can also disapprove, and in this spirit the committee is making a recommendation to Parliament to withdraw the approval for the Minister in charge of Luweero Triangle. Thank you.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: But honourable members, we and the Executive serve a joint function. That is why you bring here your policy statements, we agree and we advise you. Of course I am not saying that the resolutions of this House are binding, or that recommendations are, but we advise you and you can take our advice. So in the view of the committee, they have studied the situation and in their view they say, change. It is up to you take it or not, but that is their view.
MR KIWALABYE: Madam Speaker, on this issue of whether or not the recommendation of the Parliament is binding on the Executive, I think there is a problem. In this particular case of the ministry or minister over which the Parliament has got an oversight role and at this crucial time when we are considering resource allocation, I would like to know, is this exercise that we are doing as Parliament only ceremonial? Because if it is not ceremonial we can deny allocating funds to certain sectors, and if that is done, would the appointing authority not take note? Even in my constituency of Kiboga, if you see the activities carried out by the Luweero Triangle or whatever you call it, there are only mass graves, and these graves are abandoned. Nobody knows who takes care of them.
Of what purpose is this ministry, really? Why should we continue allocating funds simply because the appointing authority has felt it necessary to put in place such a ministry? Madam Speaker, I seek your clarification, if it is not a ceremonial exercise, can this Parliament not really go ahead and say, "We are not allocating funds"?
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Honourable Members, this is not a ceremonial function and we have the power to say no. Yes, we can and just to remind you, some time back a committee of this House namely the Appointments Committee took a position and the head of state had to accept the decision of the committee. So, it is not just for show; it is for real.
MR KAWANGA: Thank you, Madam Speaker. I raised this question because I felt some accountability should be given before the ministry is scrapped or if it has to be continued. But I will continue with my questions.
My other question on mass mobilization is about the Prime Minister's Office. I only want to be sure whether the Prime Minister's Office has a mechanism of following up on instructions. It has given risen out of requests that are made. I am raising this matter because almost three years or more ago I wrote to the Prime Minister about a young Ugandan blind girl who had qualified as a teacher from Makerere University but was not being given employment because she was blind.
I wrote to the Prime Minister and the Prime Minister graciously wrote to various authorities recommending that this girl should be given affirmation action to be employed. Two years down the road, nothing had happened. I wrote back to the Prime Minister and the Prime Minister again wrote instructing that this girl should be assisted. She is specifically called Helen Namuwawu. Nothing happened.
So I went on to hon. Ndeezi and told him that perhaps his intervention might help. Hon. Ndeezi wrote asking that this girl should be helped. It is now four years; this young, blind graduate could not get employed because nobody had reacted on the request of the Prime Minister.
MR MWANDHA: Madam Speaker, as a matter of fact hon. Kawanga addressed me on this particular case and we tried to push it through the system and reached a dead end, but the problem is bigger because Makerere University trains a lot of disabled people and he is referring to people who are visually impaired, the blind people.
There are many people who go through Makerere University and get degrees in education. One of them is a very brilliant girl from Jinja District but for a reason I cannot understand, the Ministry of Education has no way of considering that these people are teachers like any other teachers and they are not deployed. I have written letters upon letters to the Education Service Commission, pleading at least for these teachers because I think we must be having a shortage of teachers in the country, but everything falls on deaf ears; and I quite agree that this is a big problem.
THE PRIME MINISTER (Prof. Apolo Nsibambi): Thank you, Madam Speaker. I agree that hon. Kawanga did request me to intervene, but I did not direct because you cannot direct people to employ a person, but you can request. I made a request and mine was a sincere request but sometimes I have a lot of work and I have normally advised my Senior Private Secretary to write in the diary issues where I have made a request or directed.
Normally when I direct I give a time frame, say if the time frame is one month, after one month I write to the minister and say, "On such a date I made a directive, can you explain why you did not comply?" But in this particular issue, I did not direct, I requested. I think also as hon. Mwandha has said some people are jaundiced when it comes to assisting people - not even assisting - but giving a job to people with disabilities, people are biased.
So we need to change our attitude and as I said, if you raise it with me normally I have a million requests and directives. I will continue pursuing that matter because it is a good one. We can also ask the private sector to assist us. Every Friday people come to see me, they want money and jobs but I do not have money and sometimes I pray for them. I prayed for someone and he got a job.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Prime Minister, I appreciate the workload you have and the effort you put in but when I look back hon. Baba Diri has been consistent on this matter, asking for the policy on education for the blind children in the IDP camps. As a state, in fact you could direct, because Article 32 enjoins you to take affirmative action for the blind child; you can direct. That would be affirmative action under Article 32 because if the state does not show an example, I do not know how the private sector will pick it up.
MR KAWANGA: Madam Speaker, I thank the Prime Minister -(Interruption)
MR OGWEL LOOTE: Thank you, my colleague, and thank you, Madam Speaker. I just want to seek clarification from the Premier on your policy because our policy to do with people with disabilities is to integrate the people with disabilities into the normal system of our education and secondly, disability does not mean inability in our civil service.
I know for example that there is one blind Karimojong lecturer at UNISE in Kyambogo University and he lectures normal people. There is another Karimojong also who did a Masters Degree in Britain, he also teaches in Kaabong Senior Secondary School; he is a blind person. Of recent these are initiatives within the respective institutions but when this particular teacher, who is teaching in Kotido Senior Secondary School, came to the teaching service, it became a problem and yet our policy wanted to integrate him in the education system.
They are not very many in Karamoja because I was within Education and we tried as much as possible to integrate these students and teachers within the system, unless in the upper parameters the policy has changed. That is the clarification I wanted to give.
MR KAWANGA: In this particular case I am raising this matter because the Prime Minister took a personal initiative. He wrote to very many government officials but hardly any responded whether in writing or in any other form and the matter has remained like that. Government should do something to rectify such a situation.
I want to make a request in light of what the committee has said about the East African Community. Surely, with these kinds of observations by the committee, can we get a specific answer or response to show that we are actually committed to joining the East African Community and federation and see it through? The kind of things raised here have been raised several times. It looks like Uganda is the one, which is not complying with what everybody else in the region is doing. There might be a reason; is there a reason why Uganda is not doing what everybody else in the community is doing to ensure that we establish the East African Federation.
Finally, this has been said before, our embassies should be centres for commercial promotion of Uganda, but has government trained people to handle this kind of things in our embassies? Do we have a specific programme to ensure that embassies promote the economic activities of this country, to promote commerce and our exports? Do we have people specifically put there in light of the kind of political appointments that we make? If not so, what steps are we putting in place to ensure that our embassies help our economic development? Thank you.
5.17
CAPT. DAVID MATOVU (Kooki County, Rakai): Thank you, Madam Speaker, and members. I have one item only. I have decided to drop the rest. My point is on Luweero Triangle. Luweero Triangle means about 22 districts and about 109 Members of Parliament, including ministers. I have the list here. For those who want to look at it, I will lay it on the Table.
I want to raise my disappointment to this House, especially now that members are trying to forget so fast the contribution of those areas to where we are now. Like page 26 of the report to which hon. Musumba was trying to respond that government does not either respect the resolutions of Parliament in this particular regard, like this Luweero Triangle. This ministry has had I think seven ministers, the highest turnover of ministers.
I want actually to thank hon. Zirabamuzaale. I think she gave us a comprehensive statement the other day telling us what she has done and what she intends to do. She also reminded us that whereas government was committed, after the relief phase as you remember we had the rehabilitation phase and the development phase but all these were cut short by the Lakwena and Kony wars. So, government somehow inevitably started to shift its priorities to focus more on the North.
In Luweero we have people, especially the youth of around 19 years, who never went to school. Most of these street children are from that place because at that time we never had IDPs. So to me as somebody from that region I feel so bad when I read this recommendation of scrapping that ministry. That ministry needs support, needs affirmative action, it needs protection -(Applause)- in fact what we should demand is that government should come up with now a comprehensive programme for that region -(Interjection)- yes!
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, members, only one person is on the Floor.
CAPT. MATOVU: Madam Speaker, I have been trying to look at reactions given at that time when she gave us that report. Hon. Wagonda Muguli said Luweero Triangle needs a reconstruction programme and that the problem was that it has never received adequate funding. I have been trying to look at the Budget this financial year, Shs 46 million as the recurrent budget; that is a budget for tea. Madam Minister, just go and buy tea from that money alone. The development budget is Shs 100 million, which is one vehicle.
So I want to request the Prime Minister that I think we have really done some good work in the North, NUSAF is there, NUSAF II, NLAP I was there and others, and even there are other government programmes. I think it is high time government now put its eye back on this Triangle. We want our veterans resettled, war debts paid and real development seen in that place. I am convinced what we are lacking is money, hon. Nandala Mafabi, what did he say? Government should give priority to Luweero Triangle considering the enormous contribution given towards the rehabilitation of this country.
What did hon. Mafabi and hon. Wadri Kassiano say -(Interjections)- yes, it is here. I will give it to you. So, I am convinced if Luweero is given money -(Interruption)
MR WADRI KASSIANO: Madam Speaker, the honorable members who is also my good friend, a serving army officer and a person in whom I have high regard ran short of completing a statement that he made in which he mentioned my name and we are here deliberating and all that we are talking is going to remain for posterity. Could the honorable member, as a matter of procedure read what I said, which he wants to cite so that I can be convinced that it is true I said such a thing? Procedurally, could he not read the whole thing?
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Honorable member, since you have the Hansard, it is a public record already. Tell us what he said.
CAPT. MATOVU: I went through and I was making my personal notes but hon. Wadri said the following: "Any development undertaking has to be time bound." He expressed concern that the Luweero Triangle programme has been going on since the end of the war in 1986 unlike the Northern Uganda Development programme, which is time bound. He, however, clarified that he was not advocating for the closure of the ministry but rather the ministry should come up with a programme, which is time bound. So, let us allow this minister to go out, get friends, get us money and we develop Luweero for the good of this country. I thank you.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Matovu, thank you for your research. Please, ask questions quickly.
5.54
MR GEOFFREY EKANYA (Tororo County, Tororo): Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. Today a UNDP report was launched. This report talks about Uganda but its focus was on aid, trade and security in an equal world. Can the minister tell us what has been the output in addressing the challenges that result from the action of the North? In the report here you talk about meetings, meetings and the report indicates that as a result of the action of the US and Europe, the condition in the Third World is worsening. Though it talks about few progresses but in general terms it says that the conditions are worsening. It is the UNDP report -(Interruption)
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Now which minister are you addressing whom you want to answer that question?
MR EKANYA: I am asking the Prime Minister because this report handles the Office of the President, the Prime Minister and other sector ministries.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, you are waving something at us, which you say was launched today. I do not know what is in it and now you want the Prime Minister to tell you what is in that report?
MR EKANYA: Madam Chairperson, you advised me to raise questions and that is why specifically I was trying to be brief. Otherwise -(Interruption)
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, you are holding that document and you say it was launched today and I do not know what document it is.
MR EKANYA: Madam Speaker, this is the Human Development Report 2005 of the United Nation Development Programme (UNDP). The theme for this year has been "International Co-operation at Crossroads: Looking at Aid, Trade and Security in an Equal World." If you read this report it states that the action of the North, in summary that is the US and Europe, is increasing poverty and disease in the Third World. And I would like to know from government -(Interruption)
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Honorable members, I know that you have received that report. Maybe you have read it; it was launched today we have been sitting here with the entire government doing work here and now you want the Government to really evaluate that report now? Please, focus on the report of the Chairperson of the Presidential and Foreign Affairs Committee. That is what we focus on.
MR EKANYA: Thank you for your guidance. The background of my clarification is based on the following:
One, what is Ugandan's negotiating capacity at the WTO, COMESA and African Union? I am stating this, Madam speaker, because one of the few Ugandans who have been helping us at Geneva and other places, Ambassador Irumba, and others, have been facing a lot of problems when it comes to negotiating and representing the interests of this country at the WTO meetings. That is why the North has continued to marginalize Africa and Uganda. Therefore, what is Uganda's negotiating capacity and how many negotiators do we have?
Secondly, the committee has stated here that one of the functions and achievements of the Office of the President has been to ratify the UN and AU conventions on corruption. May we know when some of these conventions will be ratified and domesticated so that -(Interruption)
MS NAMAGGWA: Madam Speaker, excuse me because I have just come in. I hope I will not be off course. I understand that the honourable member holding the Floor is talking about Ambassador Irumba who was retired or whose term of office has expired. I would like to inform the member that Ambassador Irumba was recruited as a civil servant and all civil servants in government have similar -(Interruption)
MS KIRASO: Madam Speaker, hon. Ekanya is talking about the negotiating capacity of Ugandans and he referred to Ambassador Irumba because he was at the WTO and said that he used to suffer as a result of the low negotiating capacity of Ugandans. He further said that it was as a result of this that we were disadvantaged as a country. Is my colleague, the hon. Member of Parliament for Masaka, who has just come in, in order now to divert the debate to Ambassador Irumba, the person, his qualifications and his job, which is not relevant to this debate? Is she in order?
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Honourable members, I would appeal to you that if you have just walked in, please take 20 minutes to listen and pick up the trend of the debate. (Laughter). I would really appreciate it. Hon. Ekanya, ask your questions.
MR EKANYA: Madam Speaker, when is government domesticating these conventions related to corruption such as the UN and African union conventions?
MR LWANGA: I want to get this clearly, Madam Speaker. Are you talking about the African Convention against Corruption? Because if that is the one you are talking about, we ratified it a long time ago.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, his question was, "When are you domesticating it?" After ratifying, what have you done with it? That is what he is asking because he is arguing that you should domesticate it as well.
THE MINISTER OF STATE, INDUSTRY AND TECHNOLOGY (Ms Jenipher Namuyangu): Thank you, Madam Speaker. I appreciate the concern of my colleague hon. Ekanya as far as World Trade Organization negotiations are concerned. However, I would like to take this opportunity to inform colleagues that we do not negotiate as an independent country but as blocks, such as the African Union.
For example recently all land locked countries in the world were in Paraguay negotiating in preparation of the December WTO negotiations. Therefore, the question of an individual country having the capacity does not arise because at the end of the day you will not make any impact; but when you do it as Africa, as East Africa or as COMESA then it makes a lot of sense.
MR OKUPA: Madam Speaker, I thought the honourable minister knew what makes a block. Does she mean to say that if you are negotiating as a block we do not need to build our capacity? Is it in order for the minister to say that?
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, we do not even have a federation. We are still a sovereign state and we even have our bilateral interests so it is important to have skills.
MR EKANYA: Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. May I know from government what the terms were for the debt that was cancelled by the G8 and what communication government has received as a result of this debt? This is because if you read the report one of the responsibilities of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs is to negotiate debt cancellation. We thank you for your efforts and those of all Ugandans. May we know the terms and conditions?
Furthermore, one of the tasks that are being budgeted for is the CHOGUM meeting preparations. May we know whether Uganda has now been approved to host the CHOGUM meeting because there has been some competition? Also what steps is government taking to ensure -(Interruption)
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Ekanya, when hon. Tom Butime was still in the Ministry of International Co-operation he went for the arrangements and told us that Malta would host this coming year and Uganda would host the following year; and it is on the Hansard.
MR EKANYA: Madam Speaker, I am saying this because the Secretary-General of the Commonwealth came to this country and said that he had come to evaluate the conditions on the ground. He left his team here and said the decision was yet to be made after a report had been submitted considering several conditions on the ground. To the best of my knowledge the Commonwealth Secretariat has not officially made a decision, unless government has a report and I think they will educate us.
We would like to know how far government efforts have reached in addressing the imbalances that result from trade subsidies by European Union and the US. If you read most of this information on the Web, trade subsidies that are given to traders in Europe and the US cost the developing world Shs 350 billion. Also as a result of tariffs and this subsidy, Africa has lost money to the tune of US $72 billion.
This is almost equivalent to the aid that is given to us and when you read further you find that 80 percent of this aid goes back to the donors. May we know government actions in addressing this imbalance and ending this kind of treatment by our development partners who claim to be donors? I want to state here that I agree with the President that we are the donors and that Africa should come up and inform the developed world of this so that this jargon is used properly.
Lastly, we have new districts and we are aware that new RDCs are going to be appointed. May we know where most of these RDCs are going to come from? I am saying this because the people of Tororo District have been complaining bitterly that government has never appointed a single RDC from Tororo County so they would like to know the distribution of RDCs per district. In fact I have some information that in Rukungiri alone government has appointed 11 RDCs from that one district. The people of Tororo County are saying that they have been voting President Museveni in by 90 percent so why has government never considered -(Interruption)
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Honourable members, I appreciate that this is a big sector but we have to complete this report because we are going for recess at 1.00 O'clock tomorrow. Therefore, I have to reluctantly stop all contributions here and ask government to respond. I do not know whether we should start with Foreign Affairs. Okay, let us start with the Minister for Ethics and Integrity.
6.10
THE MINISTER OF STATE, ETHICS AND INTEGRITY (Mr Tim Lwanga): Thank you Madam Speaker. I want to start by thanking the committee for producing a very good report and I want to thank members for asking questions. I will answer the questions accordingly and since the Minister of State for Information is here, I will leave out those questions that concern Information.
Hon. Wambuzi Gagawala talked about RDCs and the fact that we should try and streamline their reporting. Unfortunately he did not tell us exactly what he thought was wrong with the method of reporting that they are using. As far as I know RDCs' offices are co-ordinated through the Ministry in charge of the Office of the President and so far we really have not had any complaints. They give us the information and we act on it.
However, at this juncture I think I should also say something about the facilitation of RDCs. All RDCs are given Shs 601,000 per month to facilitate their movement. However, I would like to add that in the case of the RDC for Yumbe and this was a question from hon. Namaggwa, he had a vehicle that got an engine knock in January 2004. The vehicle was overhauled but as it was being returned to Yumbe in August it overturned and is beyond repair at that moment. The Office of the President is trying to see if they can acquire a manual vehicle within this period.
Hon. Wambuzi requested that Members of Parliament be shown an image of what the new State House is going to look like. The comment is noted and I would like to inform the House that during the restructuring that took place in the Office of the President, construction of the new State House was moved to the Ministry of Works since they are the engineers.
Hon. Wopuwa wanted to know the fate of Radio Uganda staff. This will be for the Minister of Information to handle.
Hon. Kule Muranga asked about the facilitation of RDCs and I have handled that.
Hon. Lolem was worried about the presidential pledge that was made to the people of his constituency amounting to Shs 1 million, which pledge has not been paid up to now. Madam Speaker, the Minister in charge of the Presidency very recently wrote to all Members of Parliament and asked them to inform her of any pledges that had not been fulfilled. I hope that hon. Lolem responded to the minister's request because if he did it will be handled.
Hon. Sempangi talked about misuse of government vehicles. We have rules but rules are only as good as the people who are supposed to follow them. It is unfortunate that much as we are trying to build ethics and integrity in our society, we still have a few probleMs As soon as we sort out those problems I believe we will be happy with everything and use public funds properly.
Unfortunately, as a responsible citizen I would have expected hon. Kefa Sempangi to have brought this to the attention of the Ministry of Public Service, which would have handled it. No government or public officer is expected to misuse government property. Please, mark that the word "expected" does not mean they do not misuse it.
Hon. Mwaka talked about the VP's efforts to increase house incomes and in particular the rice scheme. As we all know the VP's programme is a very good scheme and it is very mindful of the environment. Soon the VP will launch a forestation programme and other environment protection programmes. We will bring the issue that the honourable raised to the attention of the VP so that he can instruct his assistants to be more careful with our swamps.
There was a question that hon. Mwaka raised that I find hard to answer regarding State House officials being invited to functions and donating big sums of money. We will try to find out where they get this money. It has been alleged by various people that these individuals are aspiring to become politicians and, therefore, they have the money to give out. We have taken note of that and we will investigate because we do not give them that money.
Hon. Alonga asked the question of how sound the vehicles that are being used in the President's convoy are and whether they are new. The question is not whether they are new or not but whether they are properly looked after. I want to confirm to hon. Members of Parliament that these vehicles are very well looked after and they are in sound condition. As you know the safety of the President cannot be compromised.
The issue about holding border meetings to try and involve MPs in Sudan and Uganda has been noted. However, all this depends on where these meetings will take place because the security of Members of Parliament cannot be compromised. The location of Eastern Uganda has no problem and as you know whenever there have been border meetings there, MPs have participated.
Renovation of the President's lodges seems to be causing some problems for hon. Haruna Alonga. He is also asking when we are going to build new lodges in the new districts. The answer is when need arises and resources are available, that will be done. Currently we are measuring our expenditure according to how big our pocket is.
Madam Speaker, hon. Otto Odonga expressed concern about the speed of the President's convoy. I know that the PGB is charged with the safety of the President and hon. Otto Odonga's concern is noted. We will make efforts to find out exactly what happened when the President last went to Gulu and if we are not satisfied we make sure that necessary measures are taken, because again we cannot compromise the safety of the President.
Hon. Okupa has informed us about the wedding that took place on Saturday. I must on behalf of Government and the Office of the President say that if there were any citizens of this country that were inconvenienced unnecessarily last Saturday, then we apologise. I take the responsibility to ensure that the PGB is made to act responsibly. This is not the first time it has happened before even to ministers, but we will sort it out.
As you know the President's security takes priority. He is one man who if something happened to all of us would have something happening to us as well. Because of this sometimes people overreact and do a little more than they should but it is our duty as good citizens - I wish hon. Okupa had mentioned this to me on Monday because as the Minister in charge of Ethics and Integrity, I would have taken action as I have done in the past.
Hon. Kawanga mentioned something about Luweero Triangle and as you know I was a former Minister of State in charge of Luweero Triangle. I concur with Capt. Matovu that Luweero Triangle is still very useful and that the purpose for which this department was set up has not yet been accomplished. A lot has been done but since I am not the minister responsible and the Office of the President is not really responsible either, I leave it to the Minister for Luweero Triangle to tell you about the wonderful things. I am sure she will tell you about the Tomato Pest Project that I started when I was in that ministry. I believe that when this project is implemented it will change the way farmers in that area earn.
Hon. Ekanya talked about the African Convention. I would like to inform Parliament that Uganda was the sixth country to ratify that convention. However, it has not yet been implemented in Africa officially because there are a number of people that are supposed to sign it before it becomes effective. Hon. Ekanya asked me this from here and I invited him to my office. There I gave him a copy of the strategy for fighting against corruption as envisaged by the Intelligence Forum against Corruption. He has a copy of it and he is very well aware that a lot of what is contained in that strategy was extracted from the African Convention against Corruption. Hon. Ekanya should go and revise it again and I am sure you will get it right.
The other thing I want to say is that when we are talking about Africa and the Human Development Index going down, we should first do a bit of research. This is because Uganda is the only country in this region whose index is going up. As we speak we have actually passed the middle point and we should congratulate ourselves on that.
With regard to distribution of RDCs, it is interesting there is no RDC from Kalangala and being a member of the Office of the President I had hoped that there would be one. I think you should not worry because sooner than later there will be an RDC from Tororo and the list -(Interruption)
AN HON. MEMBER: Point of information -(Interruption)
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Honourable minister, you should not yield the Floor unless I give you permission, otherwise these interruptions will never end.
MR LWANGA: Sorry, Madam Speaker. I thought that as a former RDC he was going tell hon. Ekanya that there is more than one RDC from Tororo because I did not want to say that. Thank you, Madam Speaker, I think I will let my fellow minister continue with the rest.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Nsaba Buturo, I hope you will cover the other areas.
6.24
THE MINISTER OF STATE, INFORMATION (Dr Nsaba Buturo): Madam Speaker, I want to respond to comments from hon. Wopuwa and hon. Kule Muranga who have raised similar points. TV coverage in the Rwenzori area is to be established at Nyakabingo on Mt Rwenzori under the Uganda Broadcasting Corporation Project of television coverage expansion. As for the district where hon. Wopuwa hails from, that area will be covered under the UBC project of rehabilitation of television facilities in the country.
I would like to add that colleagues who may have areas in their constituencies that are not covered by our broadcasting bodies should be patient because in a short while the entire country will experience a new era of broadcasting in the history of Uganda.
Madam Speaker, the staff of Radio Uganda and Uganda Television are not redundant at all. As a matter of fact they are continuing to serve their country diligently. Tomorrow I will be meeting them to not only congratulate them for the perseverance they have demonstrated over the years but to also update them on what we are doing in as far as the transfer of UTV and Radio Uganda is concerned. I want to assure the Rt. Hon. Speaker that we are not sitting down and ignoring these men and women who have put in so much to serve our country.
On the radio equipment that is under the Sexually Transmitted Infections Project (Broadcasting component) situated at Radio Uganda, I want to inform my colleagues that the Ministry of Health is the one in charge of managing that project and that the Office of the President is the main beneficiary. As honourable members are aware, the Office of the President will soon give way to Uganda Broadcasting Corporation to manage that project. I also want to assure honourable members that, that equipment lying at Radio Uganda will soon be put to use in phase II of the Community HIV/AIDS Initiative.
Hon. Kefa Sempangi raised the issue of renovation of the offices at Uganda Television and Radio Uganda. I could not agree with him more. We hope that once Uganda Broadcasting Corporation takes full charge of the affairs of broadcasting that matter will be attended to very quickly.
Finally, Madam Speaker as you have ruled, we will first meet tomorrow then release the statement on the TV viewing license fee. May I add that I cannot wait to give that statement? In the meantime let me say that it is very clear that what the country needs now is education concerning the TV license fee. It is true that this country had a similar fee in the 60s and 70s but for some mysterious reason people are no longer accustomed to paying such a fee. That is why we require an awareness campaign and soon we will embark on this. I wish to thank colleagues who have asked me questions.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you. Can the Minister in the Office of the Prime Minister in charge of Northern Uganda answer the other queries?
6.28
THE PRIME MINISTER (Prof. Apolo Nsibambi): Thank you, Madam Speaker. The Minister for Northern Uganda was here but left because she was not feeling well. She has given the answers to hon. Lokeris and of course if necessary we shall add to them.
6.29
THE MINISTER OF STATE, KARAMOJA (Mr Peter Lokeris): Thank you, Mr Speaker. I am standing in the shoes of the Minister of Northern Uganda at the moment and she has given me her comments and general remarks on members' concerns. First of all she thanks you for the favourable comments on NUSAF. This fund will continue to address itself on community development initiatives, vulnerable groups and conflict management.
As to whether we should concentrate on one activity or not is the choice of individual communities. However we think that since community projects such as the building of schools are addressed by other programmes, we will sensitise people to apply for vulnerable groups support schemes in order to get this money.
Concerning night commuters in Gulu, organisations like SOS, Noah's Ark and World Vision are carrying activities for these children at night. For example they provide shelter and blankets for the children in addition to improving their livelihood and comfort at night and I must say they are doing a very good job.
The Office of the Prime Minister is organizing a conference for West Nile in a month's time. MPs and all stakeholders will be invited to attend. Hon. Akello believes that it will be brought forward to the end of this month since MPs have requested that they be involved.
Concerning ex-LRA rebels who received some money, they were given this money as a group. Our policy is based on the 4R policy that stands for return, reconciliation, resettlement and re-integration. We assume that these ex-LRA rebels are going to be part of the community as communities are the ones who have provided the money. They are also placed in 50 member groups.
The money that we are talking about was not given to Commander Banya but to ex-rebels in separate groups and that figure was actually the total amount. Therefore these ex-rebels are now part of the community, which community we are supposed to serve and this is what this programme is supposed to address.
Honourable colleagues, this programme is well supervised. There is an internal check system manned by the staff of NUSAF and the Prime Minister's office. The Auditor-General also audits the accounts and World Bank from time to time through reviews carries out monitoring evaluation audits. The IGG also exercises an oversight role. All these provide checks and balances in this vital programme for Northern Uganda.
On Karamoja, my department, I thank you very much for the comments you have made about Karamoja -(Interjections)- oh! Our Karamoja. Only one concern was raised by hon. Lolem as to whether KPIU is better than KDA. KPIU was handling the activities of KDA after KDA went under investigation. Since KDA is more permanent than KPIU, which is a programme, we hope that after restructuring KPIU will be absorbed by KDA. It will, however, carry out the same activities as it has been doing. This is our intention and I am the one who negotiated for the inception of KPIU, which is doing a good job. The absorption into KDA is for purposes of continuity and longevity. I thank you.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you minister. Is the Minister of Disaster Preparedness around?
6.34
THE MINISTER OF STATE, DISASTER PREPAREDNESS AND REFUGEES (Mrs Christine Aporu): Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would like to thank the chairperson for this report. Hon. Muranga raised two issues, one on the internally displaced persons' kits for the IDPs in the Rwenzori region, and another on mines in the Rwenzori region.
Mine risk education is handled by the UPDF, Police and other specialized units under the National Security Committee. Therefore, I would like to assure hon. Muranga that we will handle it through the relevant ministries.
As regards IDP kits for people in Bundibugyo and Kasese, in reality after the decline of the ADF -(Interruptions)
PROF. NSIBAMBI: I asked hon. Nankabirwa and she said that they had gotten rid of all mines in that area. However, in case any problem is detected, the Ministry of Defence will handle it forthwith.
MRS APORU: Thank you, Rt hon. Prime Minister. As regards kits for IDPs in the Rwenzori region, government is still handling these IDPs in collaboration with the World Food Programme and other humanitarian agencies especially in the areas of Bundibugyo, Kasese and Kabarole. We are also still negotiating with the Ministry of Finance to see how best the Office of the Prime Minister can provide further assistance for the final resettlement of these internally displaced people. We are actually talking about 85,000 people whom we have been assisting in one way or another.
Hon. Sempangi raised the issue of night commuters and hon. Lokeris handled this. However, since there is relative peace in the North now, the number of the internally displaced children in the streets of Gulu, Kitgum and Pader has gone down. Government as the lead agency together with other humanitarian agencies is working out the modalities of providing shelter and accommodation to these children and so far they are all registered.
On the issue of co-ordinating NGOs operating in the North, another point that hon. Sempangi raised, the Office of the Prime Minister is the lead agency in co-ordinating these NGOs. There is an Inter Agency Technical Committee that meets monthly and this committee has sector working groups. There are four working groups and each handles one of the following areas: human rights, health, water and sanitation and decongestion in the camps. They meet on a monthly basis in the Office of the Prime Minister and the result of these meetings is communicated to the District Disaster Management Committees to ensure that what is taking place at the national level is also duplicated at district level.
Hon. Mwaka raised an issue that the Office of the Prime Minister is over concentrating on the North where there is conflict. I would like to inform hon. Mwaka and the whole House that we appear to be concentrating on the North because we have over one million people in camps. However, the Office of the Prime Minister looks at the country and it is in fact divided into four regions, that is, the North, West, Central and East and each region has a specific officer assigned to look into issues regarding disaster.
The Office of the Prime Minister handles droughts, floods, landslides, fires and accidents throughout the country. Hon. Mwaka mentioned people who drown. Such people are usually very difficult to identify immediately but government puts in a lot of effort to manage all disasters whether they are man-made or natural.
Hon. Mwaka also asked, "Why disaster management and not prevention"? Madam Speaker, disaster management includes prevention, mitigation and response. The Office of the Prime Minister does not only prevent but it also mitigates disaster. A lot of effort is being made to put in place a Disaster Management Policy that will be operationalised alongside the IDP policy in case of any eventualities or calamities that may befall our people. Thank you very much, Madam Speaker.
6.40
THE MINISTER OF STATE, LUWEERO (Mrs Beatrice Magoola): Thank you, Madam Speaker. I want to thank the committee for writing that good report and answer the query on why the Ministry in charge of Luweero Triangle should be retained. Capt. Matovu has already given a very good answer to this but let me add that Members of Parliament should be aware that although Luweero has been in existence for about 19 years, it has never received a recovery programme due to many factors.
You know that the people in this area were devastated during and after the war and as such they required a recovery programme. However, this has not taken off due to factors like lack of funds and so on. I want to assure colleagues like John Kawanga that they should not be scared. We are working to see that people of Luweero Triangle receive due attention in order to relieve them from their suffering.
We have a programme that we have designed in the Prime Minister's Office designed to ensure that these people have food security and that they are able to generate household income with our support. We want to see the introduction of simple technology in Luweero Triangle because from the little we have seen we have realised that different parts of this area have different types of crops that we can use to bring about industrialisation and we are following that course.
We want to make sure that we move away from using the hoe, and we do something better like having simple machines for milling, making juice and doing other things. So my dear colleagues and friends of Luweero Triangle, I want to assure you that a vivid programme is coming.
Hon. Kule Muranga was saying that Kasese and Bundibugyo in the Rwenzori area have not received anything. I want to say that whatever Luweero Triangle may have received does not spread to a large area for everybody to see. However, I want to assure hon. Kule Muranga that Kasese has been reached. Already restocking has been done to a degree around Kasese and I hope that when the recovery programme comes we shall reach those two districts then I am sure you will be happy.
Prof. Mwaka mentioned restocking. I want to inform the House that restocking was done during the financial year 2001/2002 and it was monitored. However, funds for restocking were given to the districts and they were the ones to ensure that this restocking is done. These districts gave us accountabilities that indicated that they had bought some animals and that some people had even received them. However, at the moment we do not have funds to continue restocking in areas where we did not.
Hon. John Kawanga was saying that the committee is suggesting we scrape the Ministry in charge of Luweero Triangle before Masaka has received any benefits. Let me say that actually Masaka has received something. For example during the restocking programme Masaka was partly restocked and we hope that when we revive the programme we will be able to serve it fully. Masaka also received coffee seedlings and some bags of cement.
However, the people who were giving out these things were going to small places and it was not easy for people to know that in such a place this has reached. But all this came from the Ministry in charge of Luweero Triangle. I think at this point I should say that we are determined to make sure that members of Parliament are given information concerning their areas in as far as the Ministry in charge of Luweero Triangle's activities are concerned. I thank you, Madam Speaker.
6.50
THE PRIME MINISTER (Prof. Apolo Nsibambi): Thank you, Madam Speaker. I am very proud of my colleagues because they have answered the questions. I would like to add a few things. Someone said that those who do not belong to the NRM cannot partake of NUSAF funds. When such a problem arises, I would like to know the names of those who have been denied. In other words we want to get details so that we can cure the problem. When you come across such a problem, give us the details and we shall act at once.
Let me also say concerning NUSAF that the World Bank also appraises us. Recently they carried out an appraisal and they were very impressed. In fact I have the report. They were only unhappy with one public servant whose name I will not mention and when his contract expired, we did not renew it. Apart from that, the appraisal by our donors was very sound.
MRS KULANY: Madam Speaker, I just seek clarification from the Prime Minister. Year after year Kapchorwa and Sironko have been promised that they would be included in this programme since we are part of the North. I am seeking clarification from him whether it is possible this financial year for us to be included in this programme.
PROF. NSIBAMBI: Actually that is true and the permanent secretary is working out a mechanism of ensuring that you are incorporated and I think he has submitted the requirements. Unfortunately he has had to leave; otherwise, I would be giving you a specific answer. As to whether you will be included next financial year, I do not want to make a promise, which we may not be able to keep.
Hon. Okupa raised a point that our image suffers a lot when we are in arrears regarding payment of subscriptions. My view is very strong on this. We should have fewer organisations and there is no other way. I have been speaking to hon. Musumba and I have no hesitation in directing that this matter be addressed because I also agree that it is shameful for us to belong to so many organisations and yet fail to pay the necessary dues. That is the position hon. Musumba has agreed to take so that we do not shame our country whose image is otherwise excellent.
Finally because I am a man of few words, someone was asking why the Prime Minister's Office does not get another office. This has been suggested but the office that was proposed was not acceptable on security grounds so we resorted to improving the face of the current office. I like it very much because I walk to the sixth floor daily and exercise myself.
I want to thank all of you for the excellent points you have made. If we do not accept all your proposals including the one to scrap the Luweero Triangle Office, I want to make it clear that it is not because we do not take your suggestions into account. It is our well-considered view that Luweero is a very important area and that it was traumatised. Soon we shall appraise the impact of what has been given to Luweero.
Madam Speaker, hon. Nankabirwa is here and since hon. Kiwalabye was grumbling, I was wondering whether with your permission she would like to give three instances where assistance was given to hon. Kiwalabye's constituency.
6.54
THE MINISTER OF STATE, DEFENCE (Ms Ruth Nankabirwa): Thank you very much, Rt hon. Prime Minister. The Prime Minister asked me whether nothing was taken to hon. Kiwalabye's constituency because I believe he made a contribution on the Floor while I was away. I told him that in Rwamata sub-country where my colleague comes from, we had restocking while the program was going on. I also mentioned the health unit in Rwamata to which Luweero Triangle donated cement and the iron sheets that went to the Church at Lunya.
Also, 100 iron sheets went to a traditional birth attendant, a very old lady who helped during the struggle. After the struggle she was helped to establish herself by starting the traditional birth attendant program. I would have gone on and on to mention other things that we did in Rwamata sub-county alone within the limited funds; I did not know that the Prime Minister was going to call upon me to give a list but actually we have done a lot in Rwamata. In fact there is a mass grave there for the whole district, which we rehabilitated to a very modern standard. So, it is not true that nothing was done in his constituency.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Honourable minister, I think hon. Kiwalabye's problem was that the only development he has seen has been graves basically. Is that not what he was saying?
MS NANKABIRWA: It is not true that there are only graves. We have supplied this place with coffee seedlings, heifers and building materials to institutions and individuals who helped Luweero Triangle. It is not true that there are only graves. In any case we have only one mass grave in the district, which is in Kiboga -(Interruption)
MR MWANDHA: I find this very difficult to appreciate because when you say you gave them coffee seedlings, iron sheets and others it seems as if nobody else gets those things except for the people in Luweero. Is the honourable lady saying to the House that they would not have had restocking if they had not been in Luweero? Everything that is done in Luweero, even as part of the national programme, is considered as a Luweero programme. I think this is causing confusion and that is why the House is concerned.
MS NANKABIRWA: Madam Speaker, I think we need to get into the genesis of the establishment of Luweero Triangle, which I cannot do right now. But whatever programs we are carrying out under Luweero Triangle are just to add on to what other government programs are doing in the area. We are doing this because of the way they suffered during the war, the trauma they went through as their houses were burnt and the iron sheets stolen.
What we have done is to ensure that on top of what government gives to every Ugandan, these people also get affirmative action. Restocking is affirmative action because although entandikwa was initially meant for only Luweero Triangle, it was decided in the NRC that it should cover the entire country and become one of the programmes of government.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Honourable members, you may have realised that some of the suggestions we make have appeared in policy statements of past years. Therefore, if this has been accomplished, I believe they are part of our records and policy statements. If this is not so then likewise this has been reflected in the policy statements of previous years. Hon. Kiwalabye, have you run through them and found absolutely nothing?
MR KIWALABYE: Madam Speaker, this is what I have been saying but I do not want to appear to contradict my senior colleague. However, she mentioned the items that came to my sub-county she mentioned iron sheets that were given to a traditional healer among other things but we really need for Luweero Triangle -(Interruption)
MS NANKABIRWA: Madam Speaker, is my colleague hon. Kiwalabye in order to misinterpret the information I gave to this House namely that I gave iron sheets to a traditional - whatever that is that he called it - when I was clear and said traditional birth attendant? These are the people who help Ministry of Health by attending to women who are in labour but cannot access maternity services so that they deliver successfully. Is he in order to misinterpret my information?
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Kiwalabye, the traditional birth attendant is what they call omuzaalisa and not the other kind of doctor. So, do not confuse the two.
MR LWANGA: Thank you, Madam Speaker. Today in this Parliament there are at least four ministers who have been Ministers of State for Luweero Triangle and I happen to have been one of them. I want to add to what hon. Ruth Nankabirwa has said. I spent two weeks in Kiboga and while the rest of the country was getting say 100 seedlings, Luweero Triangle was getting 1,000. While other areas were getting five heifers, people in Kiboga were getting 20 and this was because there was affirmative action.
MR KIWALABYE: Madam Speaker, my concern is not for these ad hoc interventions. I want a programme involving the rehabilitation and development of Luweero Triangle and I want to see these programs accomplished. We have had so many ad hoc programs, for example we had a program in Luweero Triangle to assist in providing people with iron sheets at reduced prices. It was in form of a revolving fund. However, there were only two rounds of this revolving fund and that was the end of it. Nobody knows where the Shs 100 million revolving fund went. It stopped yet this programme was executed through UCB.
MR LWANGA: Madam Speaker, it is disappointing when an hon. Member of Parliament stands in this August House and tells lies to Parliament. The Department of Luweero Triangle does not give loans or revolving funds to the veterans in Luweero Triangle. The iron sheets that were given to Luweero were free of charge. Is the honourable member in order therefore to come and tell this House that there was a revolving fund in Luweero Triangle in the Office of the Prime Minister?
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Honourable members, it is unfortunate that this ministry has had probably eight or nine ministers. However, when we were in the NRC we heard about some kind of fund that nobody has ever understood. I do not know whether that is the one he is talking about since it was a long time ago.
MR WAGONDA MUGULI: Madam Speaker, it is true that once upon a time there was a revolving fund and it had an initial sum of Shs 400 million. This fund was being used to purchase iron sheets, which would be distributed to beneficiaries at a subsidised price. This was during the time that hon. Kisamba Mugerwa was Minister in charge of Luweero Triangle.
However, with the change of ministers, the policy also changed from giving iron sheets at subsidised prices to giving free iron sheets to individuals. With time of course the fund got exhausted. You may recall that later on this fund became the subject of an investigation. An investigative committee chaired I think by the Solicitor-General was set up and it gave a report about this fund. Thank you.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Okay, hon. Kiwalabye I think your point has been made that you do not appreciate ad hoc programmes and that you want a well-designed programme for recovery within a time frame. I think that is clear. Can we have another former minister for Luweero?
DR KHIDDU MAKUBUYA: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank you and to thank hon. Kiwalabye for raising this point. In short we need to get more systematic regarding Luweero Triangle programmes and we need to come up with an investment programme. Therefore, I strongly recommend that page 24 and 25 of this good report be revised so that the department is strengthened rather than scrapped. Thank you.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you. We have finished with the Office of the Prime Minister. Can we go to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs?
7.09
THE MINISTER OF STATE, REGIONAL CO-OPERATION (Mr Augustine Nshimye): Madam Speaker and honourable members, let me thank the chairperson and committee members for this very good report and in particular with regard to Foreign Affairs. I thank them for always giving very favourable recommendations to Finance, although the situation has not changed much.
Madam Speaker, a number of concerns and questions have been raised but before I respond let me project the funding background of my ministry. Headquarters budgeted for Shs 5 billion to be able to accomplish all the objectives to the satisfaction of many but only Shs 1.9 billion was allocated and that is not even half of the budget. For the missions abroad Shs 26 billion was budgeted for but only Shs 23.4 was allocated, which means there was also a shortfall.
I will now deal with the concerns of hon. Kigyagi and I seek his indulgence to consolidate his concerns with those of hon. Gagawala, since they are similar. The concerns of hon. Kigyagi were that the Ministry of Foreign Affairs appears to be working in isolation because people like RDCs, CAOs and other government officials who engage in border meetings are not well informed on policies. He went further to say that these people need to know the foreign policy and other protocol procedures. He also expressed concern that it takes us long to put other stakeholders on board.
Hon. Gagawala said that the Ministry of Foreign Affairs should be seen to perform. He commended us on the new building but added that it is not the building that performs but the people who have to be facilitated in order to perform. He said that we need to teach youth in Uganda about foreign policy and that we need to appear relevant in the eyes of Ugandans.
As I have said, all these shortcomings are as a result of the background I have mentioned. These requirements need activities and you cannot have an activity without a budget. If you do not have a sufficient budget and you are in arrears and staff's property is stuck abroad on top of not being able to pay service providers, you may not be able to hold seminars for RDCs and CAOs to sensitise them. If we got more funding I believe we would be able to cover most of these activities and we would be closer to the people.
Hon. Gagawala also said that missions abroad should be enough so that export volume increases because at the moment we cannot account for the money that we send out. I have indicated that the money meant for mission's abroad is not enough because of the shortfalls.
Hon. Wopuwa was appreciative of the appointment of Ambassador Charles Wagidoso. He also wanted to know what is happening to the ambassador in India. I want to assure him that he has been recalled to headquarters and will be deployed elsewhere.
Hon. Otto wanted to know the percentage of career diplomats vis-à-vis political diplomats. He was also concerned that Ambassador Okello who was meant to go to Kinshasa has been waiting for a very long time without being facilitated to do so. He also quoted the case of hon. Nyapio who was supposed to go to Moscow and now has been deployed to Paris. I cannot immediately come up with a comparison of the percentage of these diplomats since I was listening to other concerns of members, but I will do so later.
With regard to Ambassador Okello who is still waiting to go Kinshasa, this situation is because the Congolese Government has been reluctant to grant what they call "Agrimo". This is because when you select an ambassador, the host country has to endorse that person. If they do not grant him clearance, he cannot go. We have a tripartite agreement under which the Governments of Uganda, Rwanda and DRC are working together to build confidence in each other. We have been raising this issue of "Agrimo" and we raised it in Lubumbashi and again in Kigali recently.
Although we have talked about this many times, it has not yet been agreed upon. The Americans under this tripartite agreement have undertaken to continue persuading the Congolese to grant this "Agrimo". I have also been told that in issues concerning diplomacy, when you ask for "Agrimo" and after a reasonable time passes and you do not get it that means the person has been rejected. We are also looking into that aspect although we are convinced that the Congolese are still reluctant and that they still need time to build confidence in that area. It was also -(Interruption)
MRS KULANY: There is also the situation of Ambassador Sakajja from Kapchworwa who was appointed almost a year ago but is still around. What has happened?
MR NSHIMYE: The concerns of all these ambassadors are being addressed and I believe a solution will soon be got with the new lot of ambassadors.
Hon. Otto also mentioned the Shs 1.2 billion that is to be paid to a firm to assist our government in portraying a reasonable image abroad. This amount of money has not been included in this report. I also do not have any knowledge of the allegation that the daughter of a minister is working with this firm. Maybe the honourable could furnish us with this information that might turn out to be useful.
He has also talked of people who have been bribing to get visas. We knew of such a case in India and as soon as we knew about it we took action and now we have more or less a record of all our staff in India. Concerning other places, I also urge hon. Otto to furnish me with this information so that we can follow it up because I am hearing it for the first time.
There was also concern about the 1,500 scholarships that came from the Netherlands. This appears I think on page 61 of our policy statement. We usually receive such scholarships and forward them to the relevant ministry, which is the Ministry of Education. It is not, therefore, our duty to allocate or grant these scholarships. Once we forward them to Ministry of Education it is up to them to decide who gets them depending on the different criteria attached to these offers.
MR KIZIGE: Thank you Madam Speaker and I thank you honourable member for giving way. It is common practice that missions abroad acquire property and houses and I believe that this ministry also has that policy. I am seeking clarification from you honourable minister because about 20 years ago Uganda acquired land in India to house the Uganda Embassy. May I know whether any efforts have been made to develop that land? Because if not this land could be taken back by the Government of India.
MR NSHIMYE: I thank you for raising this because since it had not risen anywhere, I did not mention this. The policy is that once you acquire property especially real estate like land and you have a title for it, it cannot easily be taken back. However, if it is an old house that is dilapidated, it can be condemned. The land in India is an underdeveloped plot and it is one of the plots that we want to develop if this House can give us the money.
Hon. Okupa was concerned about our indebtedness to different international and regional organisations and he mentioned IGAD. It is true that IGAD has achieved a lot under the chairmanship of our President and some of these achievements include the Somali Peace Process and the Sudan Peace Process. Therefore, it is very embarrassing to be the chairperson and the one with the biggest arrears. I can judge from the body language of the Minister of Finance that he is concerned and that next time he will find a solution to this problem.
He was concerned as to whether the newly appointed ambassadors will not also fail to go like Okello and Nyapio. He also wondered why these people are not getting their salaries as they wait. I think it is a good idea and I believe government will look into this because once one is appointed and awaits deployment, he has already left everything yet he still has a family to look after. I agree that they should get an income in order to sustain their families.
Hon. Kawanga wanted to know whether we are committed to the federation. He added that embassies abroad should be more vigilant in promoting commercial interests and that there should be specific programmes geared towards strengthening this programme. It is true that we are highly committed and I wish to inform this House that our President was one of the prime initiators of the idea of fast tracking the federation. Therefore, there is no doubt that the top leadership of this country and Foreign Affairs are very committed.
Concern was also expressed that a Minister for East African Affairs has not been appointed. The appointing authority is looking around and recommendations have been made to him. It is now his prerogative to implement this decision. However, I would like to inform you that until that is done the Minister of Foreign Affairs who is also Minister for Regional Co-operation is handling everything to do with East African affairs. We felt that in order for the fast tracking to move quickly, these ministers should be in Arusha to concentrate on this matter. But I am very sure that the appointing authority is addressing this issue.
With regard to embassies being more sensitive to commercial interests, our new policy is to be more aggressive in looking for market access abroad and attracting investment and tourism to this country. Early this year we recalled all our Ambassadors and High Commissioners for about two weeks and sensitised them in this respect. Of course recalling all Ambassadors and sending them back means money because they also need facilitation. If we could get more money, I believe we will be able to make follow up. We have also requested each Ambassador at the end of six months to make a report on what he has achieved where he is posted.
Hon. Ekanya talked about our negotiating capacity at the WTO. The minister concerned said that these days countries negotiate in blocks but that it is important for Uganda to develop the capacity to understand these issues. As a result, we are in the process of training our people in high caliber negotiations because although we work in groups, Uganda must appear to be competent and able to contribute.
I was asked whether we should be praised for the cancellation of debt by the G8 countries. I think it was their initiative. As to the amount that was cancelled, the Minister of Finance will inform us accordingly.
Someone asked how far we have gone with preparations for the Commonwealth conference. Although this has not yet been confirmed, I would like to report that we have appointed secretary-general to handle this process. Furthermore when the Secretary-General of the Commonwealth came to Uganda, he was very satisfied with the progress we have made so far made. We are very optimistic that given the necessary funding we shall be on schedule and able to host the Commonwealth conference. I thank you very much.
7.27
THE MINISTER WITHOUT PORTFOLIO (Dr Chrispus Kiyonga): I thank you, Madam Speaker. I would like to start by thanking the chairperson of the committee and the committee members for a report that is supportive of government and particularly the Movement Secretariat. I have also noticed that colleagues have indicated their support by not raising many issues as far as the Movement Secretariat is concerned.
I will be very brief. I have three brief comments to make on residential issues under the Office of the President. There was the issue raised by hon. Lolem about a fundraising that took place in Amudat in his constituency. I confirm that I attended this function and I was informed that this was the first fundraising function ever to take place in Karamoja. It was extremely successful and we had wanainchi and ministers from Kenya.
As we speak there is a secondary school that is grant aided at Amudat. If it is true that this Shs 1 million has not been paid, then I am sure that everything will be done to ensure that this promise is made good.
My friend, hon. Okupa, raised a second issue that State House grabbed land from All Saints Church. This is far from the truth, Madam Speaker. What actually happened is that in consideration of the special security of the person of the President and his family, the road leading to the All Saints from Akii-Bua Road was closed and this was done after due consultation with the Church administration. At the time that hon. Okupa was on the Committee on Presidential and Foreign Affairs, as a committee they visited this place and were satisfied that the arrangements were in order. It is, therefore, surprising that hon. Okupa should come here and say State House has grabbed land.
The final point on this account, Madam Speaker, is in regard to the Uganda AIDS Commission. The Uganda AIDS Commission is definitely doing excellent work but I must warn that AIDS remains a serious problem in this country. When we are classifying the severity of AIDS, if the prevalence is above 5 per cent, you are in the severe category. Although in Uganda we have had this the prevalence go down, we are still in the severe band. Therefore, we still need a lot of work and we need a lot of help. I would recommend to the Chair of the Speaker that this phraseology on page 41 needs to be amended in the interest of this country.
The phraseology reads, "The committee was informed that operations of the Uganda AIDS Commission will not be stalled by the withholding of this fund because there are other sources of funding like the Bush Fund, of so many million dollars, and the World Bank. Uganda AIDS Commission is in discussion with other donors to secure more funding."
This phraseology gives a wrong impression about Uganda. It is as if just in case it happens that there are errors which have been committed, we do not care: "If there are errors, you can withhold your money and then we get other money", that is a negative projection of the country. In any case, the donors to the Global Fund are the same donors, United States, the World Bank et cetera. So, I would recommend that this particular phraseology be amended.
I will then very quickly go on to the Movement Secretariat just to clarify and underscore the points that have already been made by the chair in the report. I think the legal question is now behind us, the legal status of the Movement system organs including the Movement Secretariat, the National Conference and the National Executive Committee. I do hope that nobody will raise it again, but I think it is important that one describes to Parliament clearly what it is that the Movement Secretariat and other organs of the Movement will be doing in the interim in the transition process.
The first point is to address what I would call the mental state of the population. What is the mental state of the population? We all know that the majority of our people in Uganda up to the point of holding the recent referendum were stuck to the Movement political system. Indeed if it were not for the hard work of the person of the President crisscrossing this country, the referendum in July could easily have brought the opposite answer.
What this means is that we still have some work to do to convince the population to accept this change and work positively for it. More particularly, over the years we have built many cadres who firmly believed in the Movement political system. If these are not convinced to see the need and the rationale of the change as ordered by the referendum, we could have difficulties ahead of time.
Our plan at the Movement Secretariat is to spend this transitional period to carry out special workshops and seminars in the countryside in order to consolidate this new reality and get as many people as possible to see this point. Related to that, Madam Speaker is the issue of prevention of conflict.
We carried out a study in collaboration with some of the development partners six months or so before the referendum, and our findings were that the majority of the people still have apprehensive thinking that Multi-parties will come with violence and instability. This was a clear finding and we think that people need to be reassured that even under a Multi-party system, we can have the same stability so that it becomes an added vision that we should go out there and reassure people.
Cabinet has also decided, following the recommendation that we got from the consultation with other political forces, that the work that is non-partisan, which the national leadership institute has been doing needs to be carried forward particularly given that the Constitution in Article 17, clause (2), obliges government to train people in military science to give people skills so that when they are called upon to defend their country, they will be ready to do so.
Cabinet therefore, has taken a decision that the work, which NLI has been doing, should be taken forward and an appropriate institution should be created to succeed NLI. We think the secretariat will be the most appropriate place to formulate the framework under which this should be done and as my good friend hon. Gagawala said, the Movement came and did very successful work. I think it is very important that we archive the main elements of what the Movement was able to do in this country.
Finally, there is legislation that we are going to do in this House, amending the political parties and organizations Act, amending the Movement Act and we need the input of the Movement Secretariat in order to succeed expeditiously in this work. Therefore, we plan that the National Executive Committee and the National Conference, which organs actually initiated the opening of political space, need to reconvene and properly and formally decide what we should do in the transition so that what we called for is consummated and put in place.
With those few clarifications, Madam Speaker and honourable colleagues, I thank you for your strong support.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you. Minister of Finance, you had something to say.
7.37
THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR FINANCE, PLANNING (Mr Isaac Musumba): Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. I want to thank the committee for a good report. I just have two comments to make arising from both the report and the -(Interruption)
DR KIYONGA: Madam Speaker, hon. Okupa has just reminded me. He did pose a question about payments to the mobilisers. Government agreed to pay them Shs 1.9 billion, which they were entitled to. So far Shs 0.6 billion has been paid and part of the money that the chairperson read is intended to recover the balance of the money. The mobilisers are also still in the court because they feel the money should have been more and we are waiting for court to decide or us reaching a compromise out of court. As soon as we reach that stage, then the House will be informed. I thank you.
MR MUSUMBA: Thank you, Madam Speaker. As I was saying, there are three points, which were raised in the report and some of which have been mentioned by the honourable members upon which I want to make some comments - to respond to actually.
The first one was on page 40 of the report. The report was very categorical. It says on page 40, paragraph 6.5, "The committee recommended that the Ministry of Finance, Planning and Economic Development should approve Phase II of the CHAI Project funds to fight HIV/AIDS contrary to the ministry's position that the approval of funds should be withheld in order not to distort the economy. The committee was informed that following their recommendation the Ministry of Finance approved Phase II of the CHAI Project."
Madam Speaker, I want just to make a comment on the way Ministry of Finance views donor funds. We have been accused in a manner that appears as if we are callous and insensitive as a ministry. That we refuse donor money, which is coming to social sector or indeed other sectors, and let our people suffer instead of accepting all the dollars that are promised by the donors to come to this economy.
This Parliament must continue assisting the Ministry of Finance and government in managing the macro-economic regime. It is important that even when the sick cure, they still live in an environment that has economic stability, an environment that both foreigners and locals are investing in with confidence in its macro-economic stability. Had it not been for our ability to have a stable macro-economic regime in place, it would not have been possible for this economy to sustain an over 5.7 percent GDP growth for the last 10 years. So, a balancing act here is being done by the ministry and may the Parliament restrain itself from forcing us to torpedo the macro-economic stability that we have put in place for long? We appreciate the need -(Interruption)
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Honourable minister, while you were away last week and during the course of the debate, this matter came up and we agreed that your ministry should present here a paper on the macro-economic stability so that we can discuss alternatives to bring in actual money. Your worry is the money but members had other views about how else we can achieve the purpose. So, Parliament is not forcing you but we expect that paper as soon as we come back from the recess so that we can discuss it and agree on how we are going to move.
MR MUSUMBA: Madam Speaker, in keeping with the directive of Parliament that paper will be presented. The point, however, is that we will want to stay the cause for macro-economic stability.
The second point is arrears to IGAD -(Interruption)
PROF. KAMUNTU: Madam Speaker, you have given your ruling because some of us, while we appreciate the need for macro-economic stability and we know the valuables for it, we know the exchange rate, inflation, government deficit and interest rates; we also know that you can bring in materials in this country to help ministries and at the same time maintain the macro-economic stability. Is it in order for the minister to continue arguing when you have ruled that we have required a statement so that we can show the alternative ways of achieving the same goals?
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, he is not. In fact he should not intimidate us into not discussing that matter.
MR MUSUMBA: Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. If the effect of my response was to intimidate or to give the impression that I am intimidating the Speaker, I apologize. It has never been my intention to intimidate the Speaker.
On arrears, the Rt hon. Prime Minister has given a directive that this matter should be addressed. We did discuss with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and our view is that we should negotiate with organizations with which we are in arrears, with a view to doing the following:
One, to see how much these accumulated arrears are; some of the arrears have been accumulated over a period of 12 years and more. So, how much of this can actually be written off?
Two, how much of the balance can we be allowed to pay in installments?
The summary of what I am saying, Madam Speaker, is that we have agreed with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs that a modality for an organized approach to these arrears should be worked out and Foreign Affairs is yet to advise us on how we have advanced on some of these undertakings.
The third point is the G8 debt cancellation. Of course one honourable member was very grateful to Foreign Affairs and said Foreign Affairs' effort has yielded G8 debt cancellation. I want to agree with him but only add that actually it is the effort of the entire government. It is not limited to Foreign Affairs alone. It also includes even the civil society, Action Aid, Oxfam, everybody. Everybody has been highlighting the plight of Africans and the Ministry of Finance also in keeping with this mandate has had a role to play.
Let me inform this House because the question actually did arise about how much of it has been cancelled. When the G8 sat and made the pronouncement that they will give debt cancellation to a number of African countries, the modalities were never specified. We had a meeting last week on Thursday and Friday, as African countries in Addis Ababa and I represented this government in that meeting. It was the meeting of African Ministers of Finance in which we were to make our proposal on how the offer that was made by the G8 should be implemented.
We agreed on modalities and we are going to hand this to our heads of state who will then present it to the G8 when they meet in New York next week on the 14th, 15th, and 16th. This is the collective effort of all of us and we must congratulate ourselves upon having merited consideration for debt cancellation.
Finally, on page 36, the report says something that MONUC should pay for the facilities at Entebbe Airport and it concludes by saying that government is prepared to negotiate with MONUC to pay a fee for the use of the airport and also to do some repairs on the runway and other structures that they use.
This is a point that has both diplomatic and financial implications so I just want to assure the committee that the Ministry of Finance, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and the ministry responsible for airports in this country are going to approach this matter aware that there are also treaties relating to how United Nations applies here so that we determine the best way forward on this matter. I thank you, Madam Speaker.
7.48
THE CHAIRPERSON, SESSIONAL COMMITTEE ON PRESIDENTIAL AND FOREIGN AFFAIRS (Mrs Margaret Zziwa): Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. I want to thank the members for receiving our report very objectively and for the comments they have made. I want also to appreciate the ministers for the responses they have given. I do not have much to add save for Luweero.
I think I need to put it to this House that last year the committee again heard almost recommended that Luweero should be similar to what is recommended and it was only withheld because we acknowledged that we have not gone to visit Luweero comprehensively and ascertain the issues as they pertain on the ground. But the problems were again raised in a similar manner, namely, the sector has been under funded since and there seemed not to be any attitude towards improving the funding in that sector.
That is why actually the members felt that if the Government is not willing to put money to rehabilitate but not to reconstruct, because at least the rehabilitation phase may be relatively improved or completed, then let us have this money put in the respective districts and in the other respective arrangements other than having a ministry which cannot be funded.
But I think the Prime Minister and the Ministry of Finance should make an undertaking since the Attorney-General has asked us to revisit that recommendation, which was made on page 25. I wish to concede on behalf of the committee but on condition that they also make an undertaking that they improve on the funding of Luweero. Otherwise, it is not a ministry or sector worth being talked about. Let them improve on this sector in terms of funding. There is no money to talk about. That is why hon. Kiwalabye and hon. Kawanga are asking. There is virtually no development to talk about -(Interjection)- I am being intimidated by the hon. Minister of Finance.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Honourable minister, allow the chairperson to reorganize her report.
MRS ZZIWA: Madam Speaker, I heard one other small comment, which I think came from hon. Sempangi. He had wished to find out whether the committee has visited specifically the Office of the Prime Minister, Radio Uganda and Uganda Television.
I want to mention that this financial year, due to the heavy legislative programme, the committee has not moved but the observations as he raises them were raised in the last Financial Year report and we appreciated the deplorable condition in which the Office of the Prime Minister is in. We had recommended that something should be done but I think with the explanation, which the Prime Minister gave, we just pray that at least the office is facilitated to give the image, which is befitting of the Prime Minister's Office.
With the establishment of Uganda Broadcasting Council (UBC), the situation in Uganda Television and Radio Uganda will improve.
The third issue I want to respond to is the concern, which at least the Minister of Foreign Affairs responded to. I want to just expound on it. The concern about the members demanding that the summit recommendations or resolutions are put in practice regarding the appointment of the minister is because even now the Minister in charge of Regional Co-operation seated here cannot go to Arusha and sit in the Council of Ministers because the treaty denotes the Ministers of Foreign Affairs.
More often than not, they are not in Arusha and the cry of the East African Legislative Assembly (EALA) is that that Assembly sits without ministers. It has almost spent all the time without Bills; they go there and make lamentations. So, what they are demanding is to have the Council of Ministers to have the front bench of the East African Legislative Assembly operational. That is why they demand a substantive minister either by amending the treaty or appointing ministers who would be able to be in Arusha wherever Parliament is sitting.
I have another small point, which I think hon. Kiyonga proposed. We accept to rephrase our recommendation of the phraseology on page 41 concerning Uganda AIDS Commission. It is true that the statement as drafted shows that we may not care about Global Fund. But there was a lot of talk about the Global Fund in the meeting and I think that is how the recommendation of this kind of phraseology was captured. However, I think we can be able to adjust that phraseology.
I want just to mention that the minister did not respond to the question on the East African Legislative Assembly Vote, and I had thought that he would answer it. The ministry felt that we may not be able to transfer just the East African Legislative Assembly Vote. We may have to transfer the whole East African Community Vote but I have requested him that maybe - because this financial year for instance already part of the 25 percent has been transferred and that includes the East African Legislative Assembly, the Secretariat and the East African Court of Justice.
In effect, if they have to transfer the East African Legislative Assembly budget only, they need to go back and work out the sums because we make a contribution and other respective countries make a contribution. But we think that still it would be better off even if it is the whole budget being transferred to Parliament.
Of course when the honourable Minister of Finance says that they have asked the Ministry of Foreign Affairs to work out a schedule, a scheme of payment to international organizations, I wish the Minister of Finance could at least make yearly payments of some kind. There has been no payment over the last so many years to these international organizations and we get benefits from there, for instance OIC, among others.
Why do we not make yearly payments? Even if it is US $5,000, we would not have this kind of relegation and shame before us. If something can be done yearly, we shall be reducing on our obligations. It is my humble appeal - because I think the way you look at it that we go back to the table and see what can be forgiven but also for courtesy and to be rightful members we should make this membership contribution.
Madam Speaker, I do not want to go back to hon. Okupa's allegation but I want to confirm the words of hon. Kiyonga that we went to State House, the State House controller was with us and we were able to see that there is no land of All Saints Church, which was taken over by State House. That is the fact -(Interjection)- when you talk about access, it is something different but at least -(Interruption)
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Is what they are saying contradictory to what you know? (Mr Okupa rose_) Yes, hon. Okupa, I really think you have the facts.
MR OKUPA: Madam Speaker, I am sorry to get up again. This issue was raised at that time when I was on the committee and it is true because it also involves the access road. It also involved the plot for hon. Paul Etiang, unless they have compensated him.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, honourable members, failing to get access is different from grabbing.
MAJ. RWAMIRAMA: Thank you, Madam Speaker. The clarification I am seeking from the chairperson is related to matters raised by hon. Okupa. There are houses, which are within the proximity of State House that pose a security threat in one way or the other. These houses were taken over for many years and up to now the owners are not getting rent and they have not been compensated. So, what do you think about it?
MRS ZZIWA: Madam Speaker, I think the Office of the President has explained these issues fully and at least as far as we are concerned at the committee level, we do not have issues related to what hon. Rwamirama is raising.
MR MUSUMBA: Madam Speaker, it would not be fair if an impression is given in this House that the State House has grabbed people's houses and land and has not compensated them. I know that as I speak today we do have valuation that has been made and instructions to pay for a number of buildings that are within the proximity of State House.
For example, as you approach State House there is a newly renovated house on the left, which used to belong to the late Serwanga Lwanga. That building has been renovated by the owner, he has named the price, the State House has negotiated with him and we are in the process of payment.
Grabbing would be contrary to the Constitution, which says acquisition of land compulsorily must be paid for promptly and fairly. So, we have not grabbed. State House has not contravened the Constitution. We have negotiated and that house is not being occupied by State House. Even if you passed there now you would find it empty. We are waiting for payment to be made before we can say it belongs to State House. I thank you.
MRS ZZIWA: Thank you very much. I want to conclude. Actually my biggest concern with the hon. Minister of Finance is that for this sector, Votes 01, 02, 03, 06, all belong to the public administration sector. That actually puts them in a vulnerable position whereby more often than not they are not in a favoured position when it comes to improvement of appropriations.
Actually, that is why you find that while they may be deemed part of the big spending sectors, they also have very erratic activities. I am not trying to plead for them because I understand at the Cabinet level you agree not to come here and plead to Parliament, but I am mentioning that some of our recommendations in the report are actually made because we realize that if you have established a sector under Article 114, which you ably quoted and you cannot fund it, then you do not need to have it. Why have many ministries, which you cannot ably defend or which you cannot ably fund?
It is in that spirit that we call upon the Government to fund every ministry they have established is relevant whether under the MTEF or under the PILA arrangement. Every ministry established is important. We need some of the priority sectors or priority activities to be listed and funded otherwise it would be a mock exercise, which we do not want to involve in or to waste time on. I thank you, Madam Speaker and the honourable House for the opportunity. I beg to move.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Honourable chairperson, tomorrow we shall deal with the adoption of the reports. Maybe by 11.00 a.m. we shall have formulated those two amendments before we adopt the report. So please, think about them overnight. Honourable members, I did indicate that we intend to go on recess at lunch time tomorrow. I would like to request you for only 20 more minutes to handle the Legal and Parliamentary Committee reports so that we shorten the work tomorrow.
8.05
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS COMMITTEE (Mr Godfrey Ahabwe): Thank you very much, Madam Speaker and honourable members. First of all I have to mention that the chairman of the committee is not in the country. I am the chairman for now but of course I am the vice -chairman as you know. There are a few corrections to make in this report but I think I will correct them as we go along. I will start by - (Interruption)
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Chairperson, just give me one minute. I have been requested by the Prime Minister to inform the Members of the Cabinet that after here they proceed for another meeting in State House. So, do not go anywhere else; just go straight to State House.
MR AHABWE: I will start by mentioning that this report covers the following institutions: the Ministry of Justice and Constitutional Affairs, the Directorate of Public Prosecutions, Judicial Service Commission, Judiciary, Uganda Law Reform Commission, Law Development Centre, Uganda Human Rights Commission, Electoral Commission, Inspectorate of Government and the Parliamentary Commission.
The ministerial policy statement of the Ministry of Justice and Constitutional Affairs is prepared in a Sector Wide Approach (SWAP) format of the justice, law and order sector, which comprises the following institutions: the Ministry of Justice and Constitutional Affairs, Judiciary, Ministry of Internal Affairs, Ministry of Local Government, Ministry of Gender, Labour and Social Development, Directorate of Public Prosecutions, Uganda Law Reform Commission, Uganda Police and Uganda Prisons Services and Judicial Service Commission.
In the report we erroneously added Uganda Human Rights Commission, Electoral Commission and Law Development Centre, which are not there, so that correction should be made. It was just a typing error.
This report focuses on only those institutions in the justice, law and order sector, which are under the mandate of the committee in addition to the Inspectorate of Government and the Parliamentary Commission.
Table 1 indicates in summary that apart from the Directorate of Public Prosecutions (DPP) and Judicial Service Commission and the Electoral Commission. The rest of the institutions requested for supplementary expenditures for wages and non-wage recurrent expenditure. The implication was that - I will not go into details.
The achievements of the Ministry of Justice and Constitutional Affairs are part of the broad achievements of the justice, law and order sector, which are contained in the policy statement. I will request members to just go back to the policy statement and look at it. They are very many and I cannot just enumerate them here.
I would like to show the funding pressures of the ministry, which include those, which have not been catered for in this budget. They include litigation costs of Shs 0.2 billion, operationalisation of Uganda Registration Services Bureau, which amounts to Shs 2.1 billion, salary projection shortfall, which is 0.6 billion, rent arrears commitment and relocation of the Administrator-General and Uganda Registration Services Bureau with Shs 3.25 billion and not Shs 2 billion. Operationalisation of decentralized legal services, treason offices in Mbale and Mbarara, which amount to Shs 0.5 billion, legal costs and travel expenses inclusive of the case for DRC Vs the Government of Uganda in the International Court of Justice and International Criminal Court, which amounts to Shs 0.5 billion. Then court awards, which amount to Shs 48 billion, and compensation arrears of Shs 6.5 billion. Projection on development programmes, which amounted to Shs 23.13 billion.
The other one is a summary budget of 2005/06. I want to make a correction on court awards arrears, which is Shs 10 billion and not Shs 1.2 billion. The development budget for some reason was adjusted later in the corrigenda but these were the original figures in the policy statement, which I am going to read later on.
The challenges in the coming budget include the search for a plot of land by the Ministry of Justice and Constitutional Affairs to find its own home. They have estimated Shs 1.0 billion for this activity. The money is not indicated anywhere in the budget and its source is yet to be established.
Then this word implementation can be - I do not think it is right - the minister can look for another word but not "implementation of the Constitution (Amendment) Bills". We need Shs 50 million for this activity. I will correct it later, I will remember it. I realize the word implementation is not the right one. It is not even operationalisation because they are the same -(Prof. Kamuntu rose_)
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: You leave hon. Kamuntu alone; he is really doing his own things from that direction.
MR AHABWE: The ministry has recommended the following figures for this Parliament to pass. For the recurrent expenditure, Shs 5,086,858,000 was budgeted and for development expenditure Shs 20,590,000,000. The other figure is statutory so we do not even need to mention it because it is not under the mandate of Parliament to approve a statutory budget.
I will go to the Judiciary. The achievements are many but I will mention court performance where the High Court had a total of 5,745 registered cases but they managed to complete 815 during the year 2004/05. The Chief Magistrates' Courts had 42,849 cases but they managed to deal with 13,988. Grade I Magistrate Courts had 14,667 cases and they disposed of 6,828. Then Grade II Magistrates' Courts had 15,201 cases and managed to deal with 8,994. I think that was some level of good achievement.
On staffing and recruitment, because this one has an implication on the money that was allocated to them, they recruited six judges, 21 magistrates of grade I, eight support staff, 12 research officers, and some internal reforms were made for efficient performance.
They completed construction of Bugiri, Luweero and Mukono courts, while construction of Commercial Court premises is going on.
I thought this was something that I could pull out as a very good achievement: they did extension and refurbishment of Kabale Chief Magistrate's Court, renovated Lira Chief Magistrate's Court and did design work for Kisoro and Bushenyi courts. They also refurbished Mengo Computer Training Centre and the Office of the Director of Judicial Studies Institute.
They also had funding pressures in the 2005/06 budget. Funding pressure means those deficits, the activities that are likely not to be funded because of the budget they were allocated for the wages and non-wages of course. They intend to recruit staff in the service. They have a deficit of Shs 4.8 billion. For development they have a deficit of Shs 1.3 billion, for land tribunals they have a deficit of Shs 3.1 billion and we revised allowances to synchronize with the recent Public Service circular, Standing Institutions No.2 of 2005, they have a deficit of Shs 1.3 billion to meet this. The total is 10.5 billion.
Table 3 indicates the priority areas of issues that have not adequately been catered for. The increased allowances for staff and the entitlements of judges are mandatory and have to be paid. The Judiciary has been forced to suspend some of the court sessions due to inadequate funding. I think this is a very serious matter, which needs consideration by this House.
The Land Tribunals have been inadequately funded and we received complaints that actually they are almost non-operational because of lack of adequate facilitation. There was a complaint that actually when they were still in the Ministry of Water, Lands and Environment, they were being given Shs 1.7 billion but now the budget is just Shs 1.2 billion, which they have provided not even reaching the level where it was when it was in the Ministry of Water, Lands and Environment. They had requested for Shs 4.3 billion and this was later revised downwards to Shs 3.1 billion. But even then, they could not be given this amount of money and what has been provided for in this Budget is recurrent expenditure of Shs 7,580,000,000 and then Shs 6,822,400,000 for development. The other figure is statutory and, therefore, it is not the mandate of this Parliament to approve.
I now go to the Judicial Service Commission. I managed to observe that the process of appointing commissioners should be expedited. The terms of the tenure of the commissioners expired and now there is only the chairperson. The other members need either renewal or some fresh appointments because some of them cannot be reappointed because of the constitutional limitations and therefore appointing other commissioners should be done as an urgent matter.
The budget proposals for recurrent expenditure for the Judicial Service Commission are Shs 1,422,534,000 and development is Shs 30,000,000. I do not know what we are going to do with the Shs 30,000,000 but that is the figure that the Ministry of Finance has provided for this Commission.
Concerning the Directorate of Public Prosecutions, I think we could pull out achievement one for mention. It is also important to note that DPP in the Supreme Court had 92 cases completed and 95 cases are on-going in the Supreme Court. The Court of Appeal completed 367 cases and 1,129 cases are on-going. The High Court completed 2,864 cases, 13,822 are on-going and of course the implication of these figures is also very important to note. The rest I think do not need passing through. These are generally the usual functions they are supposed to perform.
I will read quickly through these observations and I think all of them are very important. Since the submission of the Budget Proposal by the Directorate of Public Prosecution for financial year 2005/2006, there have been new policy developments that necessitate special consideration in terms of extra funding to the directorate:
Allowances for different categories of officers were increased and as I have already mentioned it was across Public Service and this increase has not been catered for in the Budget. The initial Shs 96 million that had been approved for allowances as per the Budget ceiling was grossly inadequate and the increase in allowances by at least 36 percent will mean spreading out the little funds available so, it may have to impact the performance of the directorate.
The directorate regularly transfers its staff and this transfer requires paying subsistence, disturbance and settling-in allowances to officers. This seems not to be seen as being catered for in the Budget and for the directorate. To meet these obligations of transfers, Shs 40 million is necessary for this activity and it has not been provided for.
You are all aware that 21 new districts have been created and this means the Directorate has to open up offices at every district headquarters. The DPP is required in all places where there are police stations and judiciary. This involves renting office space, furnishing, equipment and staffing as well as providing for operations. This is a fact. The DPP said they were yet to cover seven districts in expanding their operations, and when you add seven to 21 districts, they become 28 yet there is no budgetary allocation for this. So, you can see the dilemma.
They have gone ahead to break down what they think is necessary for extending to these new districts. To rent offices they need Shs 79,200,000, to recruit 30 new state attorneys they need Shs 56,750,000, for the new administration staff they need Shs 122,170,000, furnishing and equipping including furniture, et cetera, they need a total of Shs 1,017,222,000 for the activity of catering for new districts.
The DPP spends 45 percent for non-wage provision on rent at Crane Chambers. For the former place the DPP occupied, Shs 214 million was not paid in rent. This is a debt and there is no provision for this in the budget. In summary the DPP needs Shs 3,711,388,000 for recurrent expenditure and Shs 330,000,000 is what has been allocated as development expenditure by the Ministry of Finance.
The Uganda Law Reform Commission in the financial year 2004/2005 developed a cumulative supplement on the Principle Laws, 2000 edition. This is a good achievement because it has a relationship with non-tax revenue and it is informative as well. The statutory instruments from 1964 to 2000 were revised and they are in the process of being printed. That has an implication on the Budget. Then the Principle Laws for the years 2001-2004 were revised and are ready for publication.
They raised Shs 0.6 billion non-tax revenue through the sale of the sixth edition of the revised Principal Laws and from the sale of bid documents they got Shs 477,698,826. This was good because they generated revenue.
What are the problems ahead of them? I singled out two of them; one was construction of offices. The commission is desirous of acquiring its own premises to accommodate its offices. This will minimize expenditure on rent, which consumes 23 percent of the recurrent budget and they think they need Shs 2.4 billion for this activity.
They have continued to collaborate and participate in the East African Community and other regional commitments like COMESA. From Monday 5th, to 9th September 2005, there has been a conference of the Association of Law Reform Agencies of Eastern and Southern Africa going on. This conference was supposed to cost or is supposed to cost Shs 234 million of which the commission raised only Shs 60 million from its resources and Shs 75 million to be provided through the SWAP development funds. They are now running short of Shs 99 million for this activity alone.
Observations:
The commission is capable of producing non-tax revenue of about Shs 500 million if facilitated to print the revised principal laws of 2001-2004. Therefore, the committee recommends that Shs 637 million required for this purpose be provided as per the undertaking of the Ministry of Finance, Planning and Economic Development during the consideration of the 2004/2005 Budget. The Minister of Finance undertook to look for this money and give them to generate more money. They need it and we recommend that it should have it.
There is a delay in tabling and passing Bills prepared by the commission into the law. This hampers the attainment of the outcome of the commission's work. This, therefore, calls for mechanisms to be put in place to expedite the legislative process.
In summary, they have a shortfall of Shs 827,351,000 in the recurrent budget and they need Shs 800,000,000 million as start-up funds to put up their own building and Shs 889,117,000 for replacement of the old machinery and acquiring new machinery. What has been given is Shs 120 million only for development. The other one is statutory, which we do not have to mention, but you can see the discrepancy.
I will talk about two issues as the Uganda Human Rights Commission's biggest achievements. The increased number of operational offices is the first one. They opened a regional office in Moroto in Karamoja and they secured office equipment and motor vehicles for the new office. That was a good achievement.
They also opened up civil military operation centres in conflict areas of Lango and Acholi and they revitalized those in Karamoja. This too is a good achievement.
Our observation is that there is a misconception about the commission's budget because of the donor funded component. The committee was informed that the misconception is because Ministry of Finance puts all funding for human rights and good governance issues under the Uganda Human Rights Commission. This distorts the budget of the commission and, therefore, they should be disaggregated so that this anomaly can be rectified.
The matter of whether UHRC should be under justice, law and order sector or remain under the public administration is still contentious. This needs to be resolved as soon as possible because they need to know whether they should join the other sector or whether they should remain under public administration.
Out of Shs 800 million awarded by the Human Rights Tribunals, only Shs 93 million has been paid out. The commission appeals for a speedy payment of these awards.
The Human Rights Commission needs to pay gratuity, which includes that of some of the staff that have already left. Shs 894,595,194 was requested for in the year 2004/05 and out of this, only Shs 350 million was provided in the supplementary.
Summary of what has been provided by the Ministry: Development expenditure is Shs 7,329,250,000, while the other one is statutory as usual.
Coming to the Electoral Commission, the achievements I can single out are three and I will read them very fast: they organized by-elections for directly elected councillors and women councillors in Pader District; conducted by-elections in Kamuli for the chairperson, and councillors for Kaliro Town Council. They conducted by-elections for MPs for Bamunanika County and Mbarara Municipality.
In the year 2004/2005 they registered 695,610 voters under the continuous voter registration exercise, they handled the referendum related activities, which included preparation of voter education materials, formation of sides, framed a question and symbols and sensitization workshops for security personnel as well as execution of the referendum itself. I thought these were good achievements worth mentioning.
We categorized the budget proposed for the Electoral Commission in 2005/2006 into two. The first is the election budget. The Commission submitted a budget of Shs 74,985,409,099 but the affordable position by the Ministry of Finance is only Shs 30 billion, which is not even half of what they require. So it is up to you to make your comments.
The breakdown qualifies the total that they requested for. The operations budget includes - I think what the Ministry of Finance could afford to give them was Shs 14,480,000,000 compared to what the commission submitted of Shs 38,653,748,000.
The observations by the committee are:
The commission is due to undertake complex elections, which will involve the election of the President, MPs and district chairpersons on the same day. There is need for adequate preparation for this exercise, which will be the first of its kind in the country.
The submitted development budget was to cater for enhancement of the printing equipment, acquire land and commence construction of an office for headquarters and procure new motor vehicles. The budget, which has been cut to Shs 355 million for their development against the submitted one of Shs 7,867,067,000, will not enable the commission to embark on the envisaged building.
Of the newly created districts, 13 became effective on 1 July 2005. These require an estimated budget of Shs 1,765,598,267. This figure is not included in the commission's budget.
A total of Shs 4,189,033,252 domestic arrears has been verified and approved by the Auditor-General. Maybe I can mention that previously this figure had been contentious because the Auditor-General had not audited the accounts, but we are informed the Auditor-General has already audited the accounts and, therefore, they are requesting for the release and payment of this money to electoral officials who conducted elections previously, especially in 2001 and onwards.
The commission - Shs 355 million is development not recurrent - it is another change I think.
The Law Development Centre:
The achievement I want to point out is that they carried out training of 429 Bar Course students, 380 Diploma in Law students, 92 administrative officers, 45 court bailiffs and court clerks, and others. This is a good achievement.
What we observed as a committee is that the centre got a self accounting status and this has been very contentious between the centre and the Ministry of Public Service together with the Ministry of Justice.
Out of the outstanding Shs 120 million, which they wanted, LDC got only Shs 100 million. The committee thinks that the Shs 20 million is not such a big amount of money so it should be given to them, being a very small institution.
The Legal Aid Clinic helps LDC students to acquire practical skills and provide free legal services to juvenile offenders, petty criminals and children in need of care and protection. It was donor-funded and government was to take over after the donors. Now Shs 400 million is required for this clinic in this financial year.
What has been allocated to LDC as recurrent expenditure is Shs 1,165,800,000 only.
The Inspectorate of Government:
What I think were achievements that could be singled out are that over 4,000 corruption cases were received; 1,745 were carried forward in 2004/2005 and out of these 1,242 cases were investigated and completed. One hundred and seventy eight cases were referred to other agencies.
Prosecutions:
Forty-six corruption cases were handled and out of these five were concluded, two of which resulted into convictions and three acquittals.
Systematic/physical verification of ministers and permanent secretaries' declarations was done and 95 percent of the verifications were completed by the end of financial year 2004/2005. They have completed computerization of the leaders' declarations of 2002 and the data is being processed.
The committee observes and recommends that Shs 500 million has been provided for the Inspectorate to acquire its own premises. This has been provided for in the current budget, which is positive. Their development budget stands at Shs 4,031,613,000, which this Parliament needs to approve.
I now come to the Parliamentary Commission. I think this is the last one. What I think were achievements that I could single out very quickly are that they operationalised the new structure of the Parliamentary Service and I think this is good.
They also increased the number of work stations in the LAN (Local Area Network) of the Internet from 158 to 200. This too was a good achievement.
Observations by the committee:
Owing to the likelihood of increases in the cost associated with the Multi-party political setting as well as creation of districts with attendant additional Members of Parliament, the Parliamentary Commission resolved to rent more office accommodation within the neighbourhood of the Parliamentary Building, especially for Members of Parliament. They identified Bauman House and Udyam House as potential landlords. This inevitably implies that supplementary funding will be sought towards the end of the financial year, if you cannot give it now.
The budget of the East African Legislative Assembly is currently under the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. This is unlike our counterparts in Kenya and Tanzania whose votes are under Parliament. After liaising with the Committee on Presidential and Foreign Affairs, the Committee of Legal and Parliamentary Affairs recommends that part of that Vote for the East African Community, which is about Shs 5.3 billion, the Shs 1,611,161,000 supposed to go for East African Legislative Assembly should be transferred to Parliament so that it synchronizes with what happens in counterpart countries of Kenya and Tanzania.
To cater for staff and other leaders in the Public Service including political leaders, the Ministry of Public Service issued a circular, which I have already referred to in my remarks earlier, Circular Standing Instructions No.2 of 2005, increasing their allowances. The committee recommends that similar allowances should be revised correspondingly for political and civil staff of Parliament like has been done in other institutions.
I think some of you who have seen that Circular Standing Instructions could note that the Parliamentary Commission personnel both in civil service capacity and political capacity were notably absent. They were not mentioned. So, we are recommending that this can correspondingly be revised so that it corresponds to that circular in the mainstream Public Service.
The Constituency Development Fund (CDF) of Shs 2.95 billion that has been earmarked for Members of Parliament should not be subjected to the rigorous parliamentary financial procedures, but should be released to members who in turn will shoulder the responsibility of accounting for it.
The idea here is that the CDF was intended to relieve current Members of Parliament of constituency pressures arising from promised development projects. There is no way this can simply be postponed on account of lack of an accountability mechanism. This is a presidential pledge. The committee recommends that though categorized under development expenditure, this fund should be released to enable it cater for the intended purpose and will be accounted for by each member.
Maybe a small clarification here is needed: when we met the Parliamentary Commission there was a proposal that there should be a legal framework for it; that a Bill should be introduced to Parliament and then a legal framework for its implementation is made. However, the committee thinks otherwise because of the time involved in the preparation of Bills. The Bill must come from the Ministry of Finance and then it comes here - after all this was not money that was budgeted for by Parliament, but Parliament was used as an institution to implement it.
We also think that the Pensions Bill, which we understand is ready for tabling in Parliament and is awaiting a Certificate of Financial Implications, should be expedited and in any case should not be postponed to any other Parliament other than the current one. (Applause) We thought that it is this current Parliament, which originated the Bill and since they say the Bill is ready and it is due to be tabled but awaiting the Financial Implications Certificate, this certificate should be expedited so that this very Seventh Parliament, which originated it, should be able to discuss it to its final conclusion. It should not be postponed at all.
Given the problems associated with parking space, the committee recommends that an initiative be made to acquire Plot 13-15 on Sir Apollo Kaggwa Road. That plot, which belongs to KCC, is between Parliament and Nile Hotel. The plot is famous for being used by agitating people. After all when Parliament is full most vehicles park there. So, we think a process could be started where negotiations with Kampala City Council can be made so that that plot is acquired by Parliament to make it our parking space.
I want to skip this Parliamentary Commission Budget Analysis and come to our recommendation on page 26. Out of the submitted Shs 49,084,148,748, the Ministry of Finance had proposed to provide Shs 40,790,000,000, which would leave a shortfall of Shs 8,295,632,208 of which Shs 1,025,075,563 is required to raise the budget of the approved level in financial year 2004/2005. I understand there was a small problem with this. I think the minister knows that it was inadvertently not released by the ministry and in a meeting, which was held on the 13 July 2005 the minister confessed and said he was going to pay it, which would come to about Shs 41 billion. But we are still saying there would be a shortfall of Shs 7,269,073,185 needed to cover new planned activities of the commission.
In view of the observations and budget analysis already given, the committee recommends that Parliament passes the Parliamentary Commission budget as requested without evaluation, and this budget is as follows:
The recurrent expenditure is Shs 49,084,148,748 and the development expenditure is Shs 6,174,926,657, which gives a total of Shs 55,259,075,405.
Maybe to make a summary note here without even reading, I can say that from looking at Table 4 you will find very many variations and given the experience that we saw in Table 1 and you impose it on Table 4, the last table, you automatically conclude that these institutions will certainly come for supplementary money. So, we think instead of waiting for supplementary requests, we rectify the situation as early as possible.
In conclusion, Madam Speaker and hon. Members of Parliament, I beg to submit that the budgets summarized on the page sub-headed "Annex" for various institutions as outlined be passed by adopting the Legal and Parliamentary Affairs Committee report as presented. Madam Speaker, I beg to move.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you, hon. Ahabwe. We congratulate you upon presenting your first report as acting chairman, and thank the entire committee for the work done. I have looked at the report and it was signed by nine out of 23 members. So it meets the minimum one-third requirement.
MR AHABWE: Madam Speaker, the other word, "implementation" of the Constitution (Amendment) Bills No.2 and No. 3 is instead "consolidation", which is different from "operationalization". You can make that correction on page 5. Thank you.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Honourable members, the debate on this will take place between 10.00 a.m. and 11.00 a.m. tomorrow. Voting on the adoption of the reports and Appropriations Bill will commence at 11.00 a.m., which we hope to finish by 1.00 p.m. tomorrow. I want to thank all of you, our staff, the Sergeant and his staff for the work done. The House adjourned to 10.00 a.m.
(The House rose at 8.55 p.m. and adjourned until Friday, 9 September 2005 at 10.00 a.m.)
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